When the new 4R finally arrives there might not be any room on dealer lots for them

I absolutely would pick NA 6 over turbo 4 for a daily driver. For a sports car, turbo all the way.

Turbocharger adds many complications that fail cost vs. benefit analysis. Reliability takes major hit, your engine has to deal with higher compression, additional heat, additional lubrication issues. There are million more ways it all can catastrophically fail and grenade the engine. Why would anyone sign up for any of this for meager gas savings?

My prediction is that most of hybrid turbo Toyotas will not see 300K or 15 years that NA 4Runners are regularly hitting today. They will get mechanically totaled by turbo or hybrid battery failures at around 10 year or 150K mark. Meanwhile, you will still see 5th Gen on the road well into 2050s just daily driven.

 

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." - Einstein

 

I understand how turbos work, and the added potential for failure.

My point was only that the turbo 4 has a much better power band for a truck than the V6 does.

We're not talking about "in theory" here. I'm talking about actual specifications. Reliability issues aside, the turbo 4 cylinder is a better truck engine than any V6 we've had.

 

keyword reliability. Domestics always had better number on paper

 

Who are all of these people complaining about the lack of power?

 

I’m not buying this better truck engine BS that you are selling. Unless you’re only using your truck to race from stoplight to stoplight and live your life 1/4 mile at a time.

 

Sure. That’s why the Prius runs easily 500k miles because the Toyota hybrid is so unreliable. That’s why turbo diesel Mercedes-Benz or turbo Volvo lasted forever. The turbo is no the devil. It’s very simple and as long as you follow some basic rules they last pretty long. They can always refurbish the turbo or replace it for a reasonable price.

 

I agree with you. I'm probably being a little overly optimistic, but I think it could end up being a solid engine.

Are you new here?

Do you not understand the difference between low end torque and horsepower?

Also, I basically drive like a granny.

 

Reasonable price. That’s hilarious.

 

Why have so many people been buying these underpowered suvs for 15 years?
Also in terms of trucks I want my low end torque without having to spool up a turbo.

 

I'm not sure how long you've been around, but it was one of the Hot Topics before every other thread became devoted to whining about the 6th gen.

And, for the 1 millionth time, the new turbo engine makes Peak torque at 1700 RPMs. A huge Improvement over our current v6.

 

Hopefully they all sell their low mileage's 5th gen’s when this new 6th gen torque monster arrives.

 

Reliability aside, why would anyone buy a Toyota over competition? It costs more and offers less features.

It is like buying BMW that does not handle well or Jaguar that looks bad.

 

For one thing, we don't know whether or not the 6th gen will be reliable. Toyota may work out the bugs and we'll have a solid drivetrain.

 

Very true. Reliability is 100% the reason why I own two Toyotas.

 

It's a bit wild that Toyota will go ~6 months without brand new 4runners for sale on dealer lots.

 

the 8 speed used in Wranglers are contracted from transmission maker ZF, one of the easiest transmission family to adapt, many brands use it ranging from sedans to trucks.

Considering 10+ years ago Chrysler managed to implement the ZF 8 speed in their full size sedans, crossovers, BOF SUVs, and pickup trucks with minimal fuss, seems like it doesn't have to be that hard.

The transmissiosn on the new tacos, other other hand....

 

People give Ford and Stellantis a lot of grief and it is mostly justified. But right now I would tell people to buy a 3.6 Wrangler with the ZF over any new design Toyota SUV, and a Ranger with the proven 2.3L turbo 4 over a new gen Tacoma. In a few years when Toyota sort things out that's a different story.

 

Yeah, a buddy has a Ranger. No problems I'm aware of. It's a nice truck!

This is also why I'm optimistic about Toyota working out the bugs on the new models.

 

Me! The 4.0 is a slug, a sewing machine has more low end torque. It's really the only thing I truly dislike about this vehicle, I find it really frustrating to drive at times.

Meanwhile, the 2.5 L 5 cylinder turbo in my '07 Volvo has a nice low torque curve, feels much nicer to drive than the peaky 4.0. It's also going strong at 233k miles and counting with zero turbo issues.

 

Yesterday I bought my wife a new high trim level 1/2 ton Silverado. My wife is very tech savvy and she is coming out of 4 previous, consecutively owned Silverados...... and it still took almost a full hour for the new vehicle orientation with the Gen Z tech weenie delivery guy. I lasted through about 10 minutes of it and I had to get out of the truck and take a walk. The technology is so obtrusive and overwhelming it's disgusting. This is exactly why I bought a 5th gen 4R for my daily instead of a new GX (or waiting for a 6th gen 4R). I am never buying a new vehicle again.

 

A

A brand new OEM Mercedes-Benz turbo is around $1,000 from FCP Euro. So it’s not that expensive. You can also get it refurbished.

 

What’s the weight difference between the two? Tire sizes/weights?

 

And what’s the installation cost? How much of the vehicle do you need to take apart just to get too the turbo?

 

It seems turbophobia is the new norm for 2024.

Change is hard. Everytime a new generation or revision of a vehicle comes out many are critical because "it's not true to the origional". This is even more pronounced when a beloved vehicle has been made for 14 years.

The new engine may be good, it may be bad. We can debate until we are blue in the face but only time will tell.

I know several people with turbo vehicles and they are getting along just fine. Fortunately for the turbo naysayers there are ton of 5th gens in existence and there will be for decades to come. You can still get what you want for a long time.

 

The reason Toyota does not use the 2.4 Lt in the international markets is 2 fold.
Firstly, most South Asian markets where Toyota has a presence are developing economies. A Toyota SUV is considered a luxury item. It would be carnage to put a puny 2.4 lt in a product slated as luxury. It's against the public perception.
Also, diesel as a fuel is cheaper in these countries compared to petrol. Hence most SUVs Toyota or otherwise always come with a diesel engine. Additionally, diesel has far better mpgs compared to petrol. This is a very important criteria for luxury car buyers in these counties since most of these SUVs are chauffeur driven so the lack of refinement of a diesel can be over looked. And saving money is still a criteria every time fuel is filled.
In my close to 4 decades of driving SUVs, the 4Runner is my first V6 petrol powered SUV. I have briefly owned several SUVs over the years, even a 2006 Toureg v10 diesel but never a petrol V6.

 

There’s every reason to think Toyota will do exactly that. They’ve put way too much into the shared platform to simply dump it in 4 years for a new platform.

Sure, it can be argued that they went all-in on platform sharing just because of the money, but it’s also a really great way to standardize production, and reduce the effort needed to maintain all the separate parts pipelines.

I think their culture of continuous improvement is how toyota defines themselves, maybe more than reliability. And that’s what will eventually lead these TNGA vehicles to be very reliable. It just hurts to see all the problems they have right now.

The only thing that worries me is that a lot of car companies are shifting to viewing themselves as “mobility service” companies, as opposed to manufacturers. Which is just code for saying they want to sell good looking junk that’s unrepairable, sell loans, sell subscriptions, and sell customer data. Toyota seemed to be flirting with that too, but not sure if that’s what they truly want to do.

 

This is a straw man argument (you are misrepresenting objections). People objecting to the redesign to use turbo 4 cylinder engine because such design has numerous drawbacks - premium fuel, reduced reliability when compared to the similar non-turbo engine, increased repair costs, increased demands on maintenance.

 

It’s not being scared of turbos. It’s that Toyota took something that was great and then made it just like all the other cute Utes out there. What’s the point in paying the Toyota tax anymore? Might as well just buy a Bronco or Jeep.

 

The 2T4A doesn't require premium fuel.