5th gen vs 6th gen and why

I agree. We all are probably too hard on Toyota from time to time. My family has spent almost $90k on Toyota products in the past year and even I'm occasionally guilty of raking them over the coals.

 

Amen Brother. well said.

 

No intention of bad mouthing Toyota, was just pointing out something I came across. The Lexus mechanic’s experience was a bit worrisome though.

 

but the big question, why are we comparing an engine that will never be in the 4runner ???

this is probably a better video on the engine

https://youtu.be/1XdaccfMxn4?si=WT6WqI-q740Spqrc

 

It seems like there are a fair amount of our fellow posters are considering to move to a LC or Lexus.
I just happened to stumble onto this stuff and was just throwing it out there for general info, not endorsing it.

 

Sorry - wasn't trying to attack you specifically. Its just this has come up many times in the last few weeks and there is a small but vocal subset of Toyota haters on here that are going out of their way lately to pick this and the new turbo hybrid offerings apart as signs of the apocalypse for Toyota.

I agree its worrisome but I know Toyota has a track record of solving these things eventually.

 

Never buy the first year or two of a new model.

 

5th gen, 6 cylinders, no need for a turbo. The 5th gen engine will last. A smaller engine in an even bigger car,..me thinks it won't last. Loved my Hyundai Veloster rally edition with a manual 4 cylinder turbo but that was a far lighter vehicle. Drive a 4runner like that and ya get what you get and you'll probably still get upset.

 

6th gen done with maximum compliance to current and future regulations for reducing carbon emission. everybody knows carbon emissions are killing us and we will do everything to save a planet from that evil. I propose to give a 6th gen 4Runner name LIBERTY

 

[Jeep’s legal team has entered the chat.]

 

I’ve done that twice…..

2004 Armada, great driveline but the rest of it fell apart.

1990 4Runner 2nd gen, but it had the lowest trim 22RE 1st gen driveline….essentially a 1st gen with 4 doors so no trouble there.

 

Why is he at a private shop at 20k miles and not at a dealership for warranty work?

 

By my calculations the cost of a 2025 LE after my trade in I would have to drive it for 49 years to make my money back on gas savings.

 

Id probably get a Bronco before I get a 6th gen unless reviews of it are steller and its priced well.

 

I've also been doing some math also and unless the gas mileage is in the 30s (and we know its not going to be), I don't think there will be any savings at all with the cost of a hybrid.

 

He didn’t say, my only guess is some dealers farm out major repairs like this to private shop as to not clog up their service department floor space for the extended repair period required. I am not a regular at his site, I just thought it was interesting and I would put it out there for you guys to decide to like it or not. In other words, don’t shoot the messenger.

 

Same. Bronco looks better and is more capable.

 

I wouldn’t rule out an ORP non hybrid. But, I still hate the seats folding setup. It’s stupid and they fucked it up.

 

Yes they did. If a brand new 6th gen was sitting on the lot right next to the last new 5th gen the dealership had, I'd be driving home in the 5th gen.

 

And you'd have more money in your bank account.

 

5th gen definitely. I love my 5th gen. The only thing I'd like would be 4.10 gears(instead if 3.73) and a lower seat position(cause I'm 6'3).

They made the 6th gen to electronic and modern for my taste. Plus I highly doubt it'll get better mpg or even be more powerful.

 

Even if the 6th gen hybrid gets 23mpg avg, it won't matter. I get 16mpg average over the course of a year with the 5th gen. So, with the hybrid, I'm saving 2 gallons of gas per 100 miles. Which, for me driving about 8000 miles/year, at $4/gal, is $640/year saved in gas. My 5th gen is paid for, and to get a similar TRD ORP in a 6th gen will cost me $20k over the price of selling my current vehicle. That's 31 years to amortize the additional cost. I'll be dead before then.

If, instead, I took that $20k and invested it right now, at a conservative 7% growth (market has grown at 9.54% for the past 20 years), I'd have $77k in 20 years. And I'd still be driving the 5th gen (with ~180k miles).

 

You are downplaying this in a big way. Over years, I had short block and transmission (different cars) replaced under warranty, and it is far from simple experience you describe.

First, unless failure is catastrophic, the gaslighting. Oh its normal, they all do that. You have to fight dealership and they will play dirty if you have anything non-OEM in your car. This is because they don't want to do 12+ hour job that manufacturer will only pay them 8 hours to do. They would rather do Service 1 & 2s.

Second, especially if there is no TSB, there is endless diagnosis and attempted band-aid fixes. It could easily take 5+ appointments to get this resolved, more if manufacturer sends tech to inspect it.

Third, the job can be botched. Even if they assign senior tech that was trained for this, this might be the first time they are doing this job on this car. This is especially true for a new model issues. If you are at the end of your OEM warranty, you do not automatically get extension due to having engine or transmission swapped.

Personally, I'd rather lemon the car once major issue occurs. Even if it can be fixed.

 

Toyota and Lexus are ridiculously expensive for what they are offering. People, myself included, pay for quality and accept less features, less tech, and less performance. When that quality is not delivered, like with new Tacos, customers are more than justified in harshly criticizing Toyota. It is like ordering cheeseburger and not getting any cheese with it.

 

Thats fair.... Im just saying I have a feeling they will sort it out before to long. I will admit that you are right and I wouldnt go buy one yet either.

 

I hope so too, but I think what we are seeing is Mercedes-like pivot for Toyota. Mercedes used to be a high-quality brand, with over-engineered cars, very long model runs, and that were famous for going forever. Then Mercedes pivoted to selling high-tech luxury cars with short model runs that as a consequence were less than reliable. Then they ended up cutting costs on parts quality to keep costs down, resulting in further decreased reliability. Consequently, Mercedes of today are unfixable once they age. While they may ended up selling more cars, fewer people have any bran loyalty and even fewer attempt long-term ownership. Meanwhile, old-school Mercedes are still on the road as parts of various collections.

I am afraid that Toyota is going to sell Mexico-made EPA-compliance cars in US, while not offering Hilux and similar vehicles we associated with Toyota quality. This means they will load with tech and gizmos and try upscale their target market. As most people are not automotive enthusiasts, it will work for a while.

 

While they may be 'ridiculously expensive', that would ultimately be proven through decreased sales. Vehicles in general are overly expensive in my view, but my view means nothing if everyone is able to keep selling cars at these prices. At the moment, what Toyota is offering, people are buying. If that changes, I'm sure Toyota will adapt.

 

very true. Love to advertise their “warranty” but then drag you through the gauntlet and try to make you give up to do any warranty work and fix it properly.

recently had to have my wifenew rav4 have a hinge on trunk fixed b/c door wasnt closing properly and was causing the paint to come off and took at least 10 phone calls and 5 trips to the dealership and about 4 months to get it fixed. They never follow up with you and you have to be on topof them and they hope you just give up and go away.

 

Yup, you hit that nail on the head. BMW and Mercedes built cars up until the late 80’s/early 90’s that routinely went 200-300k miles with just standard maintenance.

I would hate to see Toyota go the same route. Problem is, like the proverbial frog, you won’t know until it’s too late.

 

Ironically, the time frame you speak of is exactly when Toyota entered the luxury market with the Lexus LS. It forced the Germans to change the way they built their cars and not for the better. Since everything is cyclical, Toyota will be on the receiving end sooner or later.