6th Gen Fail - Hybrid for Overlanding

the new GX is sweeeet, no doubt. If I could afford both I’d keep the 5th to play and get the GX for a daily- better in snow and ability to pull a decent camper.

 

just buy a few more carbon off sets

 

That’s one of the saddest points on the 6th gen. Just knowing you can sleep in the back of the 5th gen opens up a lot of possibilities when traveling. I’m not going to be in the market for a long time, but it might be an issue if I need to get a new one in 15 years time. I’m going to assume that toyota is going to milk this generation out as long as it can, given the global platform it’s on.

 

Let’s be realistic, in 2039 if the 4Runner is still for sale new it’s going to be on an all electric platform. It may have a motor at each wheel ala Rivian and the entire floor a big battery ala Tesla.

 

I am willing to watch on YouTube someone else to trying it. Does this count?

 

Maybe in Europe. Here is massive blow-back on EVs is just starting, EV sales are plummeting and resale prices cratering. While major technological breakthrough could change things overnight, as-is EV market is already saturated and these EV mandates are about to become political liability.

 

There is a lot of talk this year about EV hype being over, and there is definitely a slowdown. I don't know how much of that is truly changing consumer sentiment and how much of it is record growth the last few years catching up and hitting the wall of slow charging infrastructure growth. Yes there is going to be a lot more hybrid in the mix for a lot longer and we may see other things like fuel cell and hydrogen combustion (which frankly I think is a dead end) , or biofuel derived synthetic gasoline (which I think would be great for the environment AND for enthusiasts to keep classic cars on road) in the mix.

Some European countries set aggressive targets like only EV sales after 2030 or 2035 and that's probably going to push out but I wouldn't make any bets on 2040. Remember that when Benz built his patent motorwagen the only place to get gas was to go to a chemist and have it custom mixed up. 20 years later there was a gas station on every street corner. The world can move fast when it wants to.


(AND I am going to again provide the disclaimer that I dont even own an EV or a hybrid. Still all gas here but I can see whats coming)

 

if i could afford one, i would get a black series HQ12 and just skip the back area for sleeping

now thats true overlanding glamping

 

Yeah, that's pretty cool. But, what size tires can you fit without rubbing?

 

comes with 265/75R16 offroads so i imagine you could beef it up quite a bit. but then again, you would to buy a whole new set of tires since it uses 2 + carries 2

 

It seems like it would be nice if you could use wheels and tires that would also fit the tow vehicle, so that you would have multiple extra spares just in case things ever go really wrong.

 

CHASSIS
Drawbar/Chassis : Hot Dipped Galvanized Tubular Steel made from RHS 4"x2", 0.15 Wall Thickness, 0.24" Supporting Plates for extra Strength & Durability.
Independent Suspension : Control Arm with Dual Shock Absorbers and Coil Springs
Tires : 265x75xR16 Off-Road Tires with Two Spare Tires
Wheels : 16" Alloy Wheels with a Black Powder Coated Finish
Brakes : 12" Electric Tow Brake with Mechanical Handbrake Breakaway System Include 2x Safety Chains
Connector : 7 Pin Flat Plug
Anderson Plug : 50Amp Anderson Plug
Recovery Hooks : 2x Rear Facing Recovery Shackles


MEASUREMENTS
Internal Height 7ft(Open) 5.4ft(Closed)
Internal Length 12ft
External Height 9.6ft(Open) 8ft(Closed)
External Length 19ft
External Width 7.55ft
Pop Top +1.6ft
Dry Weight 5,0801bs
Tongue Weight 508lbs
GVWR 6000lbs

 

Where I live every third car I pass is a Tesla or Rivian. Most of the Amazon delivery vans are Rivian electrics now. At my sons last sports game I also saw a Nissan leaf and BMW i-something electric.

I dont doubt that where you live in farm country they are few and far between (you have no charging inf. to support them), but in dense urban areas of the country like the west coast and northeast they are everywhere. I see electric car chargers in most shopping center parking lots and Tesla superchargers are popping up all over. Its coming.

 

Fair - but my point was not literally that Kansas City was farm country but you are surrounded by a lot more farm country than I am. Population density.

I totally get that we are a long way off from electrics working in places like North Dakota or Oklahoma. Thats why I hope that research into alternative fuels that can address environmental concerns without batteries continues. But I think its premature to assume EVs will be a passing fad. Ive ridden in a colleagues model 3 dual motor... when you step on the accelerator .. holy *(%$$ Enthusiasts will come around to it.

I personally will always like wrenching on engines, but I think as a society as a whole the direction is a good thing. We can agree to disagree on that, no prob. But continuing to poo-poo all over the new 4Runner on this little forum isn't going to change Toyota's strategy.

 

Hybrids and EV’s have no place, IMO, in the “overlanding” or offroad world. There’s way too much tech involved for these types of rigs to be out in remote areas. I honestly believe that the Instagram overlanders have influenced some of the manufacturers into believing what they are seeing on these big name IG influencers’ posts is what the rest of us actually consider overlanding or off-roading. For the record, I’m not saying all IG influencers are posers, but a lot of them are and are generally going places where 4wd isn’t even necessary for their IG likes. I’ve seen it with my own eyes on some of our group outings where some very well built rig will join us and the second we get on to dirt, they’re in 4Lo and locked and have even had a couple of them back out of a trail claiming it was “too hardcore” and that they thought we were going to be overlanding instead of rock crawling. This occurred a few times on hard packed FSR’s with a few 6” to 12” rocks in the road in Georgia and Tennessee while the rest of us were still in 2wd.

EV’s and Hybrids mixed with rugged terrain and sometimes deep water crossings don’t mix well. The orange high voltage cables, in my experience, are pretty sensitive to being jostled and on my previous hybrid F150, I lost hybrid functionality after some minor flooding and driving to the grocery store while my street was under about 8” of water. I know Ford and Toyota are 2 different animals, but my girlfriend’s hybrid Highlander had a ton of issues with the high voltage cable harness having water intrusion problems any time it rained here in South Florida. My point being, these new gen rigs aren’t gonna go where a lot of us who truly wheel have been going.

 

i think the best way forward is the way ram is going with a hybrid system.

electric only drivetrain but powered by a dedicated small engine to recharge the batteries only. (the gas engine has no direct connection to the drivetrain so it CANNOT move the vehicle)

 

Did you just praise a Chrysler product?

 

no the concept. implementation is a whole different ball of whacks.

right now hybrids can either use electric and/or gas engine to move a vehicle.

 

the concept that ram is going would be ideal for cold climates and distance. since the gas engine is smaller than a normal hybrid you get better efficiencies.

but you get the benefit of an all electric setup (and downfalls) that you get mopre pro's vs con's on this concept in the long run.

from the article ... https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a45748697/ram-1500-ramcharger/

The Ram 1500 Ramcharger, unveiled Tuesday morning, is based on the STLA Frame EV architecture, which also underpins the upcoming Ram 1500 REV model. The chassis features larger, wider-spaced frame rails than the gas-sipping truck to accommodate battery packs of different sizes, which also serve to protect the hardware in a crash. Whereas the REV will come as standard with a 168-kWh battery, the Ramcharger will make do with a smaller 92-kWh unit. Stellantis is able to get away with the smaller pack due to this truck’s most intriguing feature, which is a 3.6-liter Pentastar V-6 based on-board generator that provides 130 kW of power.


Unlike in a plug-in hybrid like the Chevrolet Volt, the engine itself has no physical connection to the drivetrain and only serves to add power to the battery. For that reason, Ram does not want people to associate this machine with hybrids of yore. That battery is mated to a pair of electric drive modules (EDM), rated at 250 kW up front and 238 kW out back. Along with all-wheel drive capabilities, the EDMs provide the Ramcharger with 663 hp and 615 lb-ft of torque. Ram says that will allow the truck to do 0-60 mph in just 4.4 seconds.

“It is not a PHEV,” said Ram CEO Tim Kuniskis. “It functions as a pure battery electric truck. All of the instantaneous torque, all of the power, everything you’ve talked about already. But without any of the downsides.”

Power figures aren’t the name of the game when it comes to the Ramcharger, however. Thanks to that onboard generator extending battery life, the truck is expected to have a maximum range of around 690 miles. That’s a significant increase from the 350 miles of range that the Ram 1500 REV is targeting in standard trim. Ramcharger’s Eco Mode helps extend the real-world range of the truck by easing throttle inputs, as well as selecting the most efficient points to fire up the generator. E-Save Mode on the other hand runs the generator at all times, which keeps the battery topped up for as long as possible. Ram thinks this sort of range and flexibility makes the Ramcharger the perfect solution for those still struck with range anxiety, or those without regular access to the public charging network. In fact, it's calling this the “ultimate battery-electric vehicle.”

 

+1. I am no fan of Chrysler but its a great concept... AND ... its a concept as old as dirt. That is how diesel electric trains operate and how diesel submarines operate.

The only thing we are adding here is the battery and ability to use regenerative braking to recover energy and improve system efficiency.

The engine can be very small as it can run always at its max efficiency RPM and only has to charge teh battery. No transmission. Put a motor at each wheel and you a ton (maybe literally) of weight and complexity removing the transmission, transfer case, driveshafts, diffs, etc.

 

I’m sure that will be fine. By then they’ll have quick charge stations every 100 miles in most national forests and BLM land.

 

They definitely needed the driver mod in that scenario.

 

Is it though? Aren't those super maintenance intensive? IMO set and forget is most robust (idiot proof).

 

The irony in the “complicated EV” tech is that it’s unnecessary, and nearly 100 percent in the User Interface side. None of it is necessary to make a basic, robust, reliable, EV. It’s amazing you have so many EV manufacturers willing to shoot themselves in the foot through poor and/or unnecessary UI or making any and all functions software/electronic driven. It’s as if the silicon valley types have never met a mechanical engineer capable of designing a physical lock, e-brake, hvac vents, or
operate manually. It can be electric, but dammit just use switches!!!

I think the tech CEOs have gotten used to overseas programmers that will write them crappy code for cheap. That’s why they think it’s cheaper to manufacture software driven garbage. If they actually spent the time to properly design a UI system that’s respectful to the driver and safe/reliable operation, it would probably cost more than physical electrical switches. Instead they “push” software updates, which by the way, is a convenient way of requiring the car to be always dependent on the manufacturer.

And your points about diesel electric subs and trains is spot on. The stuff has been around forever, and it’s capable of taking advantage of regen. Couple that with synthetic fuels that have near zero net carbon footprint, and this whole discussion is pretty much over.

 

@Yotaholic I’m just gonna get one of these and convert it to deisel-electric.

 

funny you post that, earthcruiser just shut down completely on the 25-apr.

 

Sorry but you are way off on this... I have an BS.ME. from a technical university and I work in the software industry related to these systems. Building the same level of intelligence in these systems without software would be near impossible. ATRAC wouldn't happen without a computer to even a fraction of its current capability. Most of the code in these systems isn't even written by humans, they use software to design and model the system and then machine generate C/C++ code to run on the embedded computers in the car. And the software tools do a lot of the heavy lifting to ensure the code complies to automotive industry design and electronic standards (AUTOSAR, CANbus, etc), test and validate and pass automotive industry and government quality standards (i.e. ASPICE). This isn't phone apps and web pages. And I guarantee you there are no "silicon valley types" at Toyota corporate.

TL/DR Its a LOT less complicated to have a few simple electronic to software interfaces and do all the magic in software rather than design physical electromechanical controls. It also gives you the ability to add features and fix problems with nothing more than an OTA software update.

 

"mechanical engineering school"?

 

read as "more subscription based features" aka bmw/tesla

 

tesla is really bad at this.

ie:

1. original owner buys say self driving
2. owner sells it or trades it in
3. new owner takes over
4. tesla charges new owner for the same feature the previous owner paid for, but since you are a different owner/account it doesnt transfer, so you pay for it again.

rinse repeat