Tacoma TRD Pro Cost $65,395

Oh I didn't realize they dropped it. And I know, the tow rating was even lower for the diesel option, so it wasn't the best example of a diesel powerhouse.

 

LOL no, not comparing the camry but I did compare the RS5 to the IS500 and RCF and theres no comparison. The interior quality, fit and finish was leagues ahead of the Lexus, and I live in Colorado so I wanted AWD for inclement weather which Lexus does not even offer on those. It is also quite a bit faster than the Lexus offerings. The sound of the engine is also much nicer than the Lexus v8 even though it's a tt v6.

The 2.9t in this RS5 seems to pretty reliable/tough and is a shared engine with Porsche that has been used for a while now reliably. I also had my TB fail in the 4runner while hunting last year leaving me stranded in middle of nowhere so there can always be problems.

 

Understandable and I used to feel the same way about Euros tbh but over the past few years they seem to have gotten better in the reliability department and are stepping up their game which made me take the jump. I did buy it used so it currently is just at the 5 year mark but it has been factory maintained and I still do keep it factory maintained, prebuying audicare besides the mods i added. I plan to keep it forever if possible by maintaining it well and not abusing it as I have never owned a car I liked so much inclusively(interior, exterior, driving). IMO key is don't abuse it and proper maintenance. Proper maintenance on those cars cost a bit more but its a small price to pay in the big picture.

Mods are much more expensive for euros of course but theyre usually very high quality pieces too.

I also treat the 4runner the same way with meticulous maintenance(do this one myself) as I plan to keep it forever too.

I agree with this. Even american cars are doing better these days with reliability. Every brand has bad models of course. I do feel in the case of Audi the R cars are a step above and built to a higher standard and usually more robust drivetrains so you don't see much mention of RS cars or R8's with problems. Similar to how LC's were built to a higher standard than other toyota's even within the brand itself.

 

There's a whole thread for this? https://www.4runners.com/threads/what-have-you-done-to-your-5th-gen-4runner-today.2261/

 

Your paying for the brand name.

After years and years Toyota sells on reliability. And prices it so high because they can and will sell. The TRD pro is sweet(imo). But the Tacoma is to small for me and the new 4runner isn't of my liking(but it's pretty cool).

 

Jeep Gladiator looks like Ass so does the new GX. Jeep reliability is Ass. Prices are out of control period. I looked at a Black 23 Pro 4runner at Larry Miller Yota in Peoria Az and they wanted over 70k. Every dealer in Az wanted a 10k markup for the Lime Rush color as well when it came out. Stupid.

 

Oh that's tempting! Soft top wouldn't be my first choice, but it's got the heated steering wheel and seats which are a must-have. I also even like the white.

Hmmm.....

 

Do it! Haha. I want to live vicariously through you. It would be so fun to be able to open the top on the trails in great weather... but then you'd need to drive that train-length thing and deal with the Jeep reliability issues. It's crazy to me how divergent the resale and values are for that vs the regular Wrangler. If I didn't care about reliability or practicality I'd personally be in a 2-door Defender. But I cannot deal with one even in warranty because of the nuisance of having to go back and forth to the dealer to get something sorted constantly.

 

Remember long, long ago (pre-pandemic)... when paying the straight up MSRP was even considered foolish for all but the most limited run and special models? When it was a question of how much your negotiating and deal structuring skills could get you off of MSRP? When equipped with the knowledge of what the dealership's cost of goods (invoice pricing) is, you could walk in and work at knocking thousands off of MSRP and then they'd add back in destination charge and dealer handling.... and you fight over that as well? Well, if we enter a recession, maybe that will re-calibrate the balance of power and consumer appetite for the current non-sense. But in an effort to get us back there directionally, I provide you with:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/g60412882/suv-4x4-off-roader-invoice-pricing/

You can clearly see the amount of margin per transaction. The Lexus GX, Toyota LC have some of the highest margins at MSRP at the moment so don't let them get you paying "market adjustments".

 

I bought my 4 runner in 2020 during the COVID pandemic and fortunately got $3k off the MSRP. In this economy I'm not sure I could afford a new one. These 50 /60/70 grand trucks would have me eating ramen noodles and hot dogs everyday pinching every penny from my paycheck

 

Man this is so sad, why is Toyota doing this? Honestly $65k+ for either Taco or 4R TRD Pro is too much. Like others have said, Toyota will pay the price. I think in this case the Bronco Raptor will kill the Taco/4R sales. Yes I know Ford reliability can be iffy but let's be honest their V6 ecoboost engines have been around for a while now and has been ok reliability wise from what I've read. A V6 ecoboost in a Ranger makes it a monster vs the Taco/4R I4 i-Force with or without the hybrid. Hopefully Toyota wakes up and pulls a Tesla and lowers prices back to something more reasonable. This is just insane at this point and it makes me sad because I genuinely like the 6th gen but yeah I think $65k is too much. Hopefully the OR/ORP are more reasonable.

 

I will be watching this forum. If any of you clowns pay $60,000 or more for a new 4Runner, you're going to get yelled at.

 

Who cares about the prices of the 6th Gen? We are all driving 5th Gen's that should last a long time! I am just about three years and 60,000 miles in and I have only done oil changes, tire rotations, new tires at 53,000 miles and just replaced the window wipers. I'm about to turn 62 and I have every intention of driving this 4R for at least 15 years!

I paid $2,000 above MSRP in May of 2021 for a Lunar Rock Pro (cost $54,000) just when the market started to go up and paying above MSRP was becoming the norm on the Pro's. No regrets! I love this 4R! Nice to be perfectly content with a stock 4R!

 

I paid MSRP. I would never pay over that.

 

It's as simple as supply and demand! Just like the housing market! I also received $14,000 on a trade-in that I should have got $10,000 for. I am self employed so it also was a tax write off!

A very different car buying scenario today than three years ago when I purchased this 4R. Most of the 4R's were sold prior to arriving at the dealerships then. Nowadays there are 4R's sitting on dealership lots. Additionally the interest rates were much lower three years ago (2.39%).

 

My MSRP was $51,800, I paid $48,650

 

Unless you are doing serious off-roading it would be crazy to not look at the Palisade or Santa Fe. Lower prices, better warranty and better fuel economy. Slap a Toyota badge on them and people would line up for them.

 

I too-easily write up paragraphs about how the Hyundai/Kia track record is a strong sign of a lack of consumer-friendly thought in engineering and cost-cutting. The short of is is that so many cut corners that turn into headaches both large and small. Folks have been saying "they sucked before but they're fine now!" every year for 15+ years. I'll try to keep it brief.

Prices are lower upfront on the sticker, but not necessarily - the Telluride definitely had some unfortunate buyers go for the markup. It's not worth the long-term trouble risk to save just a couple/few grand unless you're not keeping it very long. But if you're planning to sell it, you'll get hit with lower resale. If you've owned one from the past decade, chances are you've seen some insurance increase too depending on trim/location/etc.

The best warranty is one you don't have to use. If you have to make use of the excellent on-paper warranty you have to deal with the wide spectrum of Hyundai and Kia dealers and then you'll get in line. You'll have to get an appointment however far out it is or call around to get an appointment because you're not the only one with a blown engine, warranty repairs can vary in length, complexity, you can find engine replacements that have taken as little as a few days up to waiting months with no guaranteed loaner. And they only reimburse $40/day for a rental. (At least for Kia)

If you buy used, that nice powertrain warranty evaporates and is replaced by an industry standard one.

The gap is closer these days but the duo tend to trail in fuel economy too.

Of course I know that each manufacturer has issues, Ford, HK, Tesla all had stupid recall "fixes" this year, it varies from engine, model, there are people with a 2009 Accent with 300k trouble-free miles, etc. but these things big and small are just so pervasive from the Hyundai Kia cousins that it's not worth it unless you're maybe buying the lower cost ones or can't get better financing.

(TL;DR - built to lower standard that still works out fine for many owners but bites more in turn.)

But at least you get solid, well-laid out and packaged interiors, slick styling and more features. Those didn't really comfort me as much though when I had to worry about my engine unexpectedly seizing in a rural area like the 2.4L likes to do or being vandalized/stolen in an urban one because they couldn't bother to spend the extra cents that even Mitsubishi and Nissan spent.

 

I am not giving my money to folks who are learning how to make cars. I am not funding experiments.

 

I know plenty of people that have had zero issues with their Hyundais. If Toyotas are so indestructible then why aren’t they giving a 100K warranty?

 

I have a Hyundai Tucson and it burns a whole quart of oil every 500 miles. The oil burning issue is real... tons of Hyundai/Kia owners affected by this.

 

That is an often quoted rule, but the older I get the less comfortable I am spending even that much. Another variation on it is never spend more than 30-40% of your annual gross salary on a car and never finance more than 4 years.


When I was 22 I spent something like 40% of my salary on my first brand new car. But I put 30% down, financed it for under 3% and paid it off in a couple years. At that age all I had was rent for a share apartment and a small student loan.

Now as my kids approach high school I am in mega save for retirement phase and starting to think about college financing. I put down about 40% the purchase price on my Pro by trading my Tacoma, the resulting loan payment + ins and gas is about 4% of our monthly gross and even that felt a bit higher than I like.


I think the key to a comfortable life is to keep your rate of lifestyle inflation below the rate of increase in your earnings as you age - so over time the % you spend on vehicles will go down.

 

This describes me exactly. I bought the Pro because its more than enough for what I do with it (driving to campsites, maybe doing some green/blue level guided trail rides in NH/ME after the offroad class I took) + it has a lot of daily driver creature comforts I like such as the dual auto climate. I stumbled into one at MSRP and I know that I can basically sell it for what I paid for it if the need arises.

If I wanted to rock crawl Id buy a Wrangler. If a dealer talks market adjustment I walk.

 

It's got the extended warranty as a result from the class action lawsuit. So if my engine blows before 150k miles I will most likely get a new/refurbished engine. It has about 125k miles so far. But my lady loves it as a daily driver so idk if we'll sell it.

This is one of the reasons why I don't trust thin oil. My Tucson is recommended to use 5-20 and it burnes quicker than 5-40 when I've used it and performance isn't really affected.

That's why Toyota recommending 0-20 for our 1GR-FE scares me. I know CAFE rules, but after warranty is over I'll start using 0-30 or 0-40.

 

The older single VVTI 1GR in the 2nd gen Tacoma and previous runner used 5w-30. Our dual VVTI 1GR metnions heavier oil in the manual in other markets. Lots of guys use 5w-30 in this engine with zero issues (I had a lot leftover and tried it, cant tell any difference and may stick with it). I think its all CAFE rules driving the change and I wouldn't be afraid to use it in warranty... odds of a major failure are so small and even if it happened they would have to send the oil off for analysis to prove you used something than the 0w-20 spec.

 

Badging doesn't mean anything. If a brand isn't bringing real significant changes between models. Where it counts is the drive train(Engine Transmission) and capabilities of the machine. You can shine up a turd (TRD) but it's still a turd (TRD) . IMO anyone willing to pay above $60k on a mid size truck is an idiot. Go buy yourself a GMC or Ford, then you will be happier being able to haul and pull more. I don't want to hear wah wah Toyota reliability etc. . . Anyone who actually gives a real shiz about that either don't buy new or really plan on keeping their car longer than say 5-7 years. Thats not me. I buy new always. I keep my cars a short while like them and leave them for something new and exciting. Hands down if I was paying above $55-60k its going to be like one of the below. If Toyota isn't careful they will price themselves out of the market and folks will jump on the Ranger Raptor band wagon or jump brands entirely for some of the new prospects up and coming.

 

A quart every 500 miles??? I sense some exaggeration there.

 

Nope, read up on Hyudnai theta II engines you'll see these engines have been so bad with it that it resulted in a massive class action lawsuit.

 

regarding the “extraordinarily high resale values” on the pros vs non pros. Again, it’s a bit of a myth. All 4Runners have high resale values. Here’s a reality check:

2022 ORP 19k miles $44k - https://www.carmax.com/car/25673943

2022 Pro 24k miles $49k -
https://www.carmax.com/car/25246890

Yes, it’s higher, but… in both cases, you’re getting back almost equal thousands less than you paid for.