Major fail: keyfob remote start then the truck won't start at all!

As convenient as that is, and safe as it sounds (leaving kids in running, locked car with AC on), I would think twice. A month ago, a woman in our area did the same thing and left her small child in her car to run into the store. When she came out, the car with her kid in it was GONE, carjacked. Took days to recover her car and child. There are many similar stories out there.

 

And just the other day I was whining about the fact that my new ORP didn't come with any Remote Start/Toyota Connect capabilities!
I don't know if the problem is the computer in the car, or the fob, but here is some useful general info about the fob, and safety concerns with thieves "cloning" it. It explains how to turn the fob "off" to save battery life (I did this for our spare) and start your 4R if the fob battery does go dead.
Dead Battery Fob:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opnQkH9rdow&t=0s
How to turn the fob "off" and other fob Tips and Tricks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wmr1VPU8cw

 

This kind of sh*t really shouldn't be happening. C'mon Toyota! WTF?!

 

Is this scenario repeatable every time you remote start, or just once in a while?

Only happens first thing in the (cold) morning?

Can you make it happen after driving it (warmed up), stop, then immediately try to remote start? Or try remote starting after 15 minutes?

Can you demonstrate it to a dealer?

 

Temperature doesn’t seem to matter. There’s no pattern that I could figure out, it just decides when it’s going to do it. I really thought it was the vehicle battery when it tested bad and wouldn’t take a charge. Hadn’t done it since January when Toyota replaced it under warranty. Called dealership today and they said to bring it in so they can work on it. I don’t really want to waste my time since there’s nothing to really work on and I’m not going to leave it with them for a few months. Truck only has 40k or so on it

 

This is exactly what happened with mine. It did the same thing twice, maybe two weeks apart...
Yesterday, I was only able to open the door, but afterwards, the battery completely died. Right now there is no power coming to the dash at all. I will have it towed to the dealership tomorrow when they open.
Only have 4500 miles on it.

 

This is insane. Helllloooooo Toyota???

 

Have you all tested your standby (parasitic) current draw?
Is it higher than spec?
https://www.4runners.com/threads/ma...ck-wont-start-at-all.21042/page-2#post-309640

 

I had checked the draw and it was within spec. What seems to be the issue is if this “no start” happens to you and you don’t rectify (like wait the ten minutes then start, or pull the battery cable) the computer seems to stay running like it detected the fault therefore draining the battery completely which permanently damages it if left for a long period of time or is below freezing. Our runner is completely stock with no additional aftermarket stuff.

 

These two scenarios can be considered safety concerns and Toyota seems to have chosen these solutions.
1. Remote start then open a door: turn off the engine so car cannot be stolen.
2. Remote start with child in car and no door is opened: if shifted out of park turn off the engine. Then hold off starting for 10? minutes.

But it seems the failure is that the computer stays active in a loop, still looking for a start to happen, draining the battery.

I’m making a guess here, but if your driver door jamb switch was faulty where it didn’t always engage the signal to chassis ground, (which turns on the interior lights as well as signaling to the computer of a door entry), you could get to scenario 2.

You could do some more testing, like repeatedly toggle that switch and see if it ever does not turn off the interior lights. Is it intermittent, sticky?

Have you ever tested for the proper operation of scenario 2? That is, if you are seated in the driver seat can you remote start it, then shift into gear to demonstrate that it stops the engine? Does the re-start failure happen? Does that 10 minute delay happen?

If you cannot remote start from being seated inside the vehicle you could have a helper start it from outside.

Another idea is to firmly tape the switch down so it stays down when the door is opened. Shut the door then remote start the engine. Open the door, the engine should stay running.
Get in, shut door, press brake, and shift into gear. Does the engine stop (scenario 2) and then get into that failure mode?

A batch of intermittent door switches? Bad remote start programming? Intermittent failures are a bear to troubleshoot. Hopefully it has been elevated by dealers to Toyota to investigate.
Regardless, every case of this happening to every person should be reported to nhtsa.gov
https://www.nhtsa.gov/campaign/safercargov?redirect-safercar-sitewide

 

Thanks I will try some of these and get back to you. The first time this happened I actually opened the rear hatch to throw my hockey gear in (it should have shut off, I wasn’t even paying attention to notice) then I proceeded and got in the drivers seat when I then thought weird, why didn’t it shut off? Put on my seatbelt and attempted to drive which it then shut down, not allowing a restart. That would leave me to think it’s not the door switch but I will try playing around with a few scenarios.

 

Probably has to do with the new charges Toyota will be implementing for their remote starts. If you own a 20+ with a remote start, it’s probably already programmed to take affect when they roll out the whole pay for the feature.

This is mostly a theory but, I’m sure them testing prior to them fully initiating the charge sounds like common business practices? Lol

 

It’s funny you say that, we had a 2017 tacoma trd sport that we traded for the 4 runner. It had the identical fob and the remote start worked exactly the same way with the 3-press hold method. The
Truck could be 300yards away and you could start it. The 4 runner can barely be started in our own laneway, but you can solve that by a monthly $9.99 payment for Toyota connect

 

I never had an issue where I wasn't able to start it with the fob. Only the issue where the engine does not shut down when I open the door, then not being able to start it before 15 minutes or so go by. It all started to happen then the battery completely died the third time this happened (about two to three weeks interval)... Coincidence??
I have reached out to Toyota corporate since I can't find anyone with an answer yet. We'll see what happens.

 

Guess what just happened this morning again. 4 runner battery dead won’t start. I’m starting to see a pattern here. Every time we have the issue with the remote start the main battery dies the next day or a few days later after sitting overnight. Getting sick of this, battery was replaced 2 and a half months ago under warranty. No clue what is going on here but with 34000 km this should not be happening. Went to dealer they scanned it and ran their tech stream (laptop) on it and can’t find anything. They checked all the parameters for Toyota connect that are all switched off properly since we are not paying the subscription. Was sent away as there is nothing they can see. When I got home I had my wife remote start while I sat in the vehicle as I wanted to see if it would do the 10-15 minute lock out. As soon as I touched the brake the horn and lights started going off and it shut down. She pushed unlock to stop the alarm handed me the fob and I tried to start, it started right away. I then opened the window had her remote start again this time she handed me the fob through the window. I tried touching the brake again and it shut down but with no horn and no flashing lights since I guess it seen the fob. I tried to start and it did. So now I’m wondering where this 10-15 minute lock out is coming from because it’s definitely not from the computer not recognizing the door opening since I just tried simulating it?

 

Very strange. Like others have said it may be related to the imminent changes to Connected Services.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscription-remote-start-key-fob

Even though you’re not subscribed there may be some intermittent software bug where it gets into a mode where the DCM stays active trying to call the home servers. Maybe try experimenting with removing the DCM fuse.
There a big thread about preventing data transmission to Toyota this way, I don’t remember if there was any discussion of effects to key fob remote start.
https://www.4runners.com/threads/how-to-disconnect-the-tracking-telemetry-on-the-5th-gen-4runner.20628/page-10#post-333167

 

I would speculate that if Toyota had plans to charge a subscription fee for remote start via the fob, then logically some sort of "permission" is required via DCM communication with the mothership. But the question is whether it gets that permission every time the remote start is used, or if it's toggled on/off sometime during regularly scheduled data TX/RX?

I've been wondering...those folks with the dead battery issue, how's the DCM cellular signal at your house?

 

I will experiment with the fuse when I get a chance. We do have weak cell signal at home. We don’t often drop calls in the house but inside we usually have 1or2 bars of service. We Live out in the country. So if this theory is correct then at work inside the underground parking garage where I have no cell signal I should not be able to remote start?

 

I don’t recall anyone describing exactly how the DCM works for key fob remote starting. Maybe it goes out to the home server for permission every time. Or maybe periodically every xx days. Or maybe only once after each time the car battery is removed. But since your connected services has been terminated you wouldn’t think the DCM gets involved anymore.

Perhaps there’s a permission bit is set in RAM where it’s lost after a power down, or maybe it’s in flash non-volatile memory so remote starting is still enabled after a power down once it’s set. You could ensure the remote start is working then stop the engine and pull the DCM fuse. Try remote starting at home and at work and see how it behaves. Try disconnecting the battery for a while then repeat. You’ll just have to experiment. Good luck.

 

Reviving this old thread as I had the same issue happen to me yesterday. I have a 21 Venture with 44k KMs on it.

The fob battery removal trick fixed the issue. I have already had the battery replaced under warranty once as it was completely discharged and failed the dealership's test.

Just wondering if the OP or any other experiencing this issue ever found a solution?

 

Sorry haven’t been back on here for a while. We went through the winter without any issues but we changed the way we use the remote start. Whenever we use remote start and proceed to enter the vehicle we stopped using the door handle unlock feature. When remote started we use the fob to unlock which shuts the engine down and then proceed to enter. Ever since we started doing this we have had not one issue, so I wouldn’t say the issues gone but found a way around it lol unless Toyota happened to do a software update that solved it.

 

not a big fan of the way toyota implemented remote start. i think its lame when you open the door the engine stops. the way our x5 works after remote starting it you can get in and just press the start button again with the key on you and you can drive. engine doesnt shut down and the heat or ac is still going. what point is it to remote start then have to start again when you get inside. toyota please do better.

 

how long have you waited to read 12ma?
with hood open or closed?
I'm reading number jumping between 0.01 ~ 0.02 amp

 

20 minutes after you connect the ammeter in series the ECUs go to sleep. I measured 12mA. It’s not perfectly steady, it jumps around a few mA. That seems to be what you report.

This is with the hood open.

 

What's Year of your 4Runner?
I'm wondering if the hood sensor on 2023 4Runner will add more current draw
Thanks

 

2018. I don’t have any hood-open sensor.
But if you’re accurately measuring between 0.01 to 0.02 amps (i.e., 10-20 milliamps) that’s normal. Toyota specs 50 milliamps or less.

 

Thanks for your reply

Actually 50ma is not practical for 4Runner
Correct me if you find anything wrong

0.05 amp x 24 hrs x 30 days= 36 amphour
For original 65ah battery, you have 45% SoC left which is not enough to start engine after truck sit idle for just one month

0.015 amp x 24 x 30 = 10.8 ah you still have 83% SoC which is strong enough to start engine

 

Sounds about right.
50 mA isn’t a problem if your 4R is a daily driver. But if you store it for a month or more it’s recommended that you use a battery maintainer or disconnect the battery. However, I let my 4R sit for 4 weeks while on a long vacation and it started right up when I got back. The battery was about one year old then, an older one may not have fared as well.