New Land Cruiser - Meh

I see. EPA will not allow it.

 

I think it's cost prohibitive which is why not common. With enough $ anything is possible.

 

EPA would want you to modify it to meet their requirements. No?

 

That's my rough understanding. Has to meet our standards.

 

It will not be 70 series anymore lol

 

That's technically correct, but in a meaningless way. Because it ignores vehicles like the Lexus LX and GX since Toyota doesn't stamp Land Cruiser. Even though it's obviously the same vehicle under the uglier Lexus body. Especially with the LX450, which Toyota made nearly indistinguishable from the LC80.

I personally don't care if it says Land Cruiser or not, I care if it's built like one. If someone was selling you a LX450 for 5k and a LC80 for 14k in the same condition, a sane person would buy the LX450 since it's a clear carbon copy. If you look at it from the basic superficial perspective, the Lexus LX/GX isn't a Land Cruiser because it isn't written on the vehicle, but if you look at it from a 4x4 perspective it is.

 

Fine. You're right. Whatever you decide is a Landcruiser then.

The whole conversation started out as some folks claiming that certain Landcruisers were not "true" Landcruisers. I say that if Toyota stamps the word Landcruiser on it, then it's a Landcruiser.

I don't care if people want to call a GX a Landcruiser, even though there are clear differences. You can call a trans am a Camaro as well if you like.

 

It really is not that hard. Toyota has the flagship LC(200/300 series) and the smaller version called the LC Prado( lc 70/90/150/250). USA did not get the LC Prado. It got the Lexus GX. That changed now with the 2023 LC just launched .
Toyota has the LC and the LC Prado and the Lexus has LX and GX. Essentially same underpinning but built to a different quality. Think, WV Toureg, Q7, Cayenne, Urus and Bentayaga. All are essentially the same but all are different SUVs.

It is confusing how Toyota badges and sells the LC world over.

The point is, by bringing the smaller LC to US, Toyota is encroaching on the GX territory at the luxury end as well as the 4runner territory at the off-road lower end .

Merely for conversation, there is an Asian version of the 4runner based on the Hilux platform called the Fortuner, and it's Toyota bestselling midsize SUV in those countries. Then again, Hilux is an inferior platform as compared to the Tacoma. It does get confusing .

 

I will have to see one in person to know if I like it or not. My initial concern is the unproven power train and the "toy" like interior components, i.e., shifter.

 

Did the Fortuner replace the "Surf"? The Hilux surf used to be basically a 4Runner, with the exception of the drivetrain possibly. But, with the Fortuner, it seems like they would be competing against themselves.

 

The Fortuner is something else, I don't completely understand why it exists. But from what I've read the Fortuner isn't really that exciting.

The Surf was an alternative name for the 4runner. What replaced the 4runner depends on the market your talking about. In Australia the 1996 Prado replaced the 2nd gen 4runner. In Japan nothing replaced the 4runner after the 4th gen ended, but they already sold the Prado alongside the 4runner for many years there.

The only market I know of where the Fortuner directly replaced the 4runner is Brazil. But that is reading between the lines because the 4runner (called the SW4 there) was discontinued years before the Fortuner entered the market also as the SW4.

 

Yes, the Fortuner replaced the Hilux Surf. It was essentially built for newer Asian markets where cost was a relevant parameter.

The hilux platform gave birth to the Fortuner SUV and the Innova mini van. Both best selling products in their markets but a step below 4runner and highlander interns of perceived quality and materials.

 

EPA for emissions, and DOT for crash standards. And forget California for anything post-1975.

I have a friend that had a business importing 70-series and Defender 110’s from around the world at the beginning of the overland fad. He closed it when it went from knowledgeable off-roaders to overlanders with more cash than brains.

 

I find if funny that people keep saying it's impossible because EPA, but I've seen 70 series in the US before.

California only says your vehicle has to meet the regulations that the vehicle was designed to meet when new, which is why I can drive and register a 49 state vehicle in California. I don't understand why people love to hate CA laws, we don't do full vehicle inspection like PA or NJ. Is it so much to ask that you don't modify your old vehicle to make it pollute more?

The only source of tension I understand is the attitude about tuning and engine swaps, if you can meet the original emissions without cheating why should it matter what engine you use or what tune you have. Importing a JDM vehicle isn't easy in California, but I don't think that's a unique thing. The 25 year rule was created after dealerships (specifically Mercedes) lobbied because people were going to grey market importers to get better prices on new vehicles. Mercedes claimed it was a "safety" thing, but they directly benefited by walling the US out of international pricing.

 

Question: did you already own your vehicle when you brought it to California?

I had a HJ60 LC from Canada that I registered in Washington originally. When I brought it to CA, they were fine with me registering it, as long as I'd owned it, registered, in WA state for over a year. At least, that was the rule in 2010. What is much much harder is to be a CA resident, and bring a post-1975 vehicle directly into California. How do I know, because I've got a few friends that are CA residents with bogus Montana addresses for their post-1975 Defender 110's with 300tdi engines.

Finally, you're assuming I hate California smog laws, I don't, not sure if you were pointing that comment at me.

 

Payments are fine with 4Runners though. Say ur payment is $700 a month. I doubt 4Runner will lose $700 value a month. I see 3rd gens in good condition going for $9000

 

That gives a solid axle look lol

 

100% agree with this. The BOF is not as important as everyone cracks it up to be. And think about it like this, whenever anybody mentions looking at a used 4Rrunner, what's the first thing t people say? "Check the frame for rust!". So it's biggest attribute is also it's biggest weakness, lol.

And it's not even like it helps with towing capacity, because the unibody Grand Cherokee tows up to 2500 lb more than the 4Runner.

 

I'm over buying expensive cars, even used. Looking back, I've spent way too much money on cars in my life, if I'd use that money for better things, I'd be in a much better place right now.

A few months after buying my 4R I finally smartened up about money and realized what a mistake it was, so I buckled down and paid it off within a year and a half. I told myself that is the last vehicle I will finance, from now on, vehicles are bought with cash. If I can't part with the cash, I can't afford the vehicle.

I wish it didn't take me till I was frickin 40 years old to realize this.

 

Trucks can handle more punishment without developing rattles and all that. There is a reason why frames are still used.

 

Frames are the only way to build tough. You are not going to find unibody skyscrappers lol

 

On the flipside, take care of the 4Runner, and you won't be spending so much money to keep it running. Certainly less money than a Jeep. The price was up there for me, too, but I prefer to pay a bit more up front for something good than to spend way too much to maintain the Jeeps yes I'm still butthurt

 

Rattles are fun! I loved them when I was a baby!

 

Lol

 

If it makes you feel any better, I'll be 45 this year and I'm still pissing away all my money like an idiot. Oh, well. At least I'm having fun.

 

Fully disagree. The BOF is why they're as durable as they are. Rust isn't a BOF problem, it's a Toyota problem.

A unibody 4Runner might as well be a Highlander.

 

I have owned Chargers, Mustangs, Wranglers, Chevys you name it. They were fun but pieces of crap. My car that my life depends on is my lil lil Rav4. It just runs without complaints. I am tired of it I want to repace it with a 4R.

 

The Prado I want:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eA_uTEI6pRE&feature=share

 

Honestly that's what's keeping me from selling it. I look at it and I see a pile of cash sitting there, but anything I replace it with will just be less reliable. The money spent on repairs isn't even the worst part, it's just the time and hassle of dealing with it. I drive 60 mi a day to work and back, I don't want to worry about my vehicle.

 

Yes, they do. Every auto manufacturer issues and corrections on new models first year in production. Toyota will have 6-7 SUV’s to appeal to drivers with different needs.