6th gen Speculation Thread

I don’t have a problem with the B58 engine. I think my 4Runner has all the visual charm of an appliance. It’s a truck, uglier than most, not as bad as some. I don’t really care.

 

I'd take a B58 in a second. Amazing engine with little to no problems since it's introduction. Seems it's getting better and better each generation. I secretly love to see it in the 6th gen 4Runner but that's wishful thinking and blasphemy in the eyes of the Toyota fan boys here

 

Wishful thinking is an understatement. We're not getting a Toyota 6 cylinder, let alone a BMW turbo I6.

Also, one doesn't have to be a fanboy to not want a BMW engine in a Toyota.

 

I don't mind it in the Supra though.

 

I read a fascinating article about the BMW / Toyota partnership building the Toyota Supra. As we all know, the engine, transmission and platform are all BMW, but before Toyota agreed to work with BMW they requested that BMW send them an engine so that the Toyota engineers could examine it. A few months later Toyota sent BMW a response which essentially said that the engine tolerances were unacceptable and that BMW needed to tighten up their motor if they wanted to continue talking about a partnership.

I'll see if I can find the article.

 

I do. I mind it very much. So much, that I don't even give a shit about the MKV.

I was so excited to see them bringing it back, and then I found out that they were just slapping Toyota badges on a BMW. Very disappointing!

This is pretty much my point. After decades of building some of the best I6 engines, they bring it back with a BMW drivetrain??

I understand that Toyota probably isn't building any I6 engines anymore, so that's probably why they partnered with BMW. But, I'd rather see a Toyota V6 in it than a BMW I6.


This is all just my personal opinion. But, I'm willing to bet that a lot of the other old school Supra enthusiasts agree with me.

 

I agree. My father bought a new 1986 Supra and I loved driving it. The I6 was excellent. The BMW I6s are very good but I would prefer a Toyota for sure.

I don't know why Toyota went into that partnership with BMW because they already have some good engine - Lotus has been using Toyota inline 4 and V6 engines for years. They're getting over 400 hp out of a Camry engine by adding a supercharger. Why doesn't Toyota do this? Why doesn't Toyota make a mid-engine Supra that would be a Porsche Cayman killer?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a20112603/toyota-camry-vs-lotus-evora-400-track-test/

 

The reason Toyota went for BMW to help make the platform is cost. If it was a full Toyota Supra it would be way too expensive to develop or Toyota would lose big on everyone they sold. I'd bet even at $100k would still show a loss on every car.

And a Mid-engined Supra would be an MR-2. Which has been rumored for a while now but we could actually see it in a couple of years. Albeit as a Hybrid or EV

 

Of course it's economics: certainly cheaper using BMW engine, transmission, suspension and platform.

The MR2 was tiny like a Mazda MX5. I drove one quite a bit in the summer of 86 when I worked at a Toyota dealership on Cape Cod. A mid-engine Supra would be a Corvette and Cayman killer, not a MX5 killer.

 

Was it the '86 MK2, or '86.5 MK3? Both were very cool in my book!

Agreed that cost of development was probably the main reasoning for partnering with BMW. But, as much as I love a straight six, I would have rather seen a Toyota V6 or V8 than a BMW platform rebadged as a Toyota.

They could have very easily used the IS platform, and the turbo 6 out of the LS. But, that would have been unsatisfactory to some people as well.

The idea of a mid-engine Supra doesn't really do much for me. I get it from a performance standpoint, but it seems weird to me to change the entire layout of a vehicle. Then again, those new Corvettes look really nice, aside from the tacky interior.


I had a beater '87 MR2 That was purchased around 2002 for $450 with a blown head gasket. Got a low mileage used engine from Soko in Chicago and had a pretty sweet beater! T-tops leaked like a sieve, but were sure nice to have when the weather was nice! I mostly used it for commuting to work, but we had a few good road trips in it as well. The transmission finally quit after a few years of me beating the shit out of it, and It was in pretty rough shape due to being vandalized and also being hit by a deer, So we opted not to fix it.

 

The MR2 I drove belonged to the dealership and was almost certainly a 1986 model, the angular MR2 look. As I recall I was using it either for small parts delivery, customer drop off/pick up or stuff like that. The owner had a few dealer cars that we used for stuff like that. They were great cars. I haven't seen one in decades.

Sounds like you had a lot of fun with that beater! Wow. Nice ride.

 

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the B58.

 

Also, Supra nerds please move to the right so the rest of us can talk 4Runners.

 

Meh I still don't care it's a bmw motor. It works and people still love them enough to buy them. They make a lot of power reliably so I'm not afraid to change course or brand.

 

I'm glad it doesn't bother you. Are you buying one? Or, did you already?

As I said, it's just my opinion. And, I'd still bet that a lot of old school enthusiasts don't like it.

Not everyone is going to get it. Apparently you don't.

 

Oh, sorry for going off topic! I wonder who brought the Grenadier into the conversation?

Maybe the BMW nerds should "move to the right."



But, ok, I'll shut up about the shitty BMW Supra.

 

Yeah, I was giving you guys a hard time!

 

We own a 2 series with the B58. It's been great! Anecdotal, sample size of one.

I'm not sure what "old school enthusiasts don't like it" is referring to, but the B58 is widely regarded as one of the best, most overbuilt, BMW engines after the M20 and M30 engines.

But, you know, that only matters if you're not buying a 4Runner/Prado/GX550!

 

I can never tell when people are being sarcastic, so I always try to assume they are. I know you're not a big fan of them, though.

I'd try harder to stay on topic, but we're not really going to know everything for quite awhile. It's hard not to just BS about every little distraction.

 

I was referring to us "Supra nerds."

As you know, being a nerd isn't always about logic and practicality. I'm sure the B58 is a fine engine. But, it's hard to watch the 1JZ and 2JZ get replaced by a BMW engine.

This probably comes off as a fanboy attitude, and I'm Ok with that.

 

Be still my heart

This article says Toyota is reintroducing into Japan a newly designed FJ70 Landcruiser that will use the frame, motorization and automatic transmission of the Prado, but the suspension and body design of the FJ70.

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/586105

This is a photo of the new truck being tested in Japan. It looks very familiar. Could it be?

 

huh?

 

Here's a great article on the history of the chicken tax and the two- vs four-door issue etc. And anything made in Mexico falls under the North American Free Trade Agreement. No import tax.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/20...ally-created-a-new-way-around-the-chicken-tax

 

That video was awesome! Thanks for posting it. I had no idea these things were still made like this, makes me want a troopy even more!

I wonder if that’s the original assembly line that started making these models? It would makes sense if it is, otherwise you’d think they would have integrated more robotic assembly and welding along the way. Apparently they thought it was just right and just kept going. That’s a pretty special vehicle.

 

That doesn’t look like a similar body to the 70, it looks exactly like one! If they offered one here in the states, I’d be excited to say the least.

If they actually did a troopy version that’s as tough as the current one, I would probably swoon and faint as I held out a fistful of cash towards toyota

 

I can see I triggered you relax dude it's the internet don't take it too hard on the keyboard

 

Idk man, bass guy is pretty laxed

 

Oh, I'm steaming over here.

Edit: I've admitted that I know it's not rational. I just find it extremely disappointing that my dream car finally came back, but as a rebadged BMW. I'll never own one of the new ones, so it doesn't really matter. But, the fact that I would now rather have a Nissan Z than a Toyota Supra says a lot to me.

Just because others don't mind isn't going to change my opinion.



Sorry for going off topic... Again.

 

Maybe there's some bong water spilled on the shag rug. Better check.

I loved the first gen Supra -- not the Celica / Supra but the true first gen which was a wonderful car. That inline six was buttery smooth. The collaboration with BMW makes obvious economic sense, but the new Supra is a BMW with Toyota stamped sheetmetal on it. It's made in Austria on the same assembly line as the BMW Z4. It's the same car. Hey, it could be worse, it could be made in Mexico, China or the USA. Austria is not so bad. I've had some pretty good sausages there and the beer isn't bad either.

Some people don't care. Some people drive Buicks. I met a woman once who had a wooden leg and left it at a train station in Spain only to get a ticket for littering.

 

Totally get it, not criticizing anyone for feeling that way. I just like good engines, regardless of who made them. Not all of them belong in every car though!