Another Interesting Take on EV's

https://thefederalist.com/2023/06/29/electric-cars-are-an-expensive-scam/

 

It will be a while, but the evs are coming and will be here to stay

 

Yeah, if a ‘new’ form of personal vehicle propulsion requires government mandates and monies to incentivize its manufacture and force its acceptance, at the expense of the existing successful and widely-embraced technology, it’ll only hurt the economy. The market isn’t clamoring for EV to the degree it’s being pushed.

In my opinion, the engineers at Toyota aren’t idiots, and they’re still pursuing hydrogen propulsion. Not only them anymore, either.

 

It may not be ev maybe it will be something else like you mentioned. Of course battery technology is going to be the big factor. Either way the fossil fuel vehicles will change or disappear in time.

We already see the motors getting smaller and more efficient

 

Hydrogen fuel cell is the likely frontrunner

 

Water fueled fuel cells have been around since the middle 60's. The Apollo missions ran off them. I can't understand WHY the technology hasn't really struck the market, replacing batteries of every sort.

Unless, of course, the battery companies have been </begin conspiracy theory> buying up and quashing the patents. </end conspiracy theory>

Just seems odd that such efficient, clean, safe, technology hasn't really exploded.
Just me, though.
Pat☺

 

I didn't click the link, but I agree with a lot of what has been said here already. I think there needs to be either a major improvement to battery technology, or we need to look into a different technology.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind mandating something that is maybe a little better than for the environment, at the expensive being much less convenient to operate.

 

I think Hydrogen has a slight infrastructure advantage.
It can be trucked to fueling stations off the beaten path just like gas is now.
If there is not enough demand off the beaten path to run expensive upgraded power lines to enable high current charging stations they are out of luck.

 

Anything that starts with "The left likes to...." isn't interesting. You're reading propoganda.

 

Everything is a scam. Literally every industry is set up to scam their customers in some way.

 

What do you consider the "normal lifespan" of a vehicle?

Does this also factor in the batteries failing after 90,000 miles, 100,000 miles, 150,000, miles?

I'm just curious, because most decent ICE vehicles can last 200 to 300K miles with decent care. So, if the EV requires a very expensive battery swap (which also creates emissions) during the normal lifespan of an ICE vehicle, it should definitely be figured in.

As far as the market demanding improvement; It's going to be hard to see how that really factors in when the government steps in and tries to force people to buy technology that really hasn't peaked yet.

Edit: I should point out that I don't have anything against electric vehicles. What I do have something against is the government trying to force people to buy inferior technology under the guise of environmental concerns.

 

- A typical 10-15 years old ICE vehicle still has plenty of life left in it and can be purchased by minimum wage workers, students and those who can't afford expensive transportation. what will the used EV market look like for the same demographics?

- Those who don't have garages, live in apartment complex or park on the side of the street (coincidentally mostly from same above demographics), how and where do they charge their EVs?

- ICE vehicles can be serviced and repaired by independent shops or DIY, which give the owner certain amount of autonomy. How much autonomy EVs allow?

- Unlike fossil fuel, electricity is not tangible commodity which means its storage, handling and transportation are not tasks ordinary people can perform, going back to autonomy...

Points above can give us an idea as to why there is such big push from certain interests to go full EV.

 

@MountainWanderer

Minimum wage workers can't afford shit. You can't find a used car under 10k right now.

EV's require very little maintenance. They've been out for a long time. No one is complaining about maintenance.

I see people all over charging their cars in their driveways.

The storage, handling and transportation of fossil fuels are not tasks ordinary people can perform - what are you talking about?

Certain interests pushing for EV's? TF? There's certainly certain interests pushing fossik fuels. Case in point the super right wing propoganda piece initially linked.

 

Maybe the .gov should mind its own business? Just a thought.

 

For sure a right sided article. I’m truly interested in the statement that Ford is losing on every EV sale. I’ll have to dig in to that. I agree with the statement for folks about the government staying out of this. The mandates need to go, giving rebates I can handle better. I think it’s dumb for us to not invest and work towards a more electric transportation system. Look at how many roof of homes bake in the sun all day, when if we were able to plop solar panels on them they could be adding to the energy grid. The sun has way more energy in a day than we can use by far, we just need to harness it some how. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, we need to see solar panels on these electric cars as well, they may not produce a ton, but they can assist in charging these EVs while they sit in the hot sun.


My issue with articles like this and pretty much anything written these days, they are doing just what our government wants and is also doing us, dividing us more and more. Keep issues political and keep us divided, keeps them in power.

 

I did just a small amount of looking. Using the Tesla 3 as an example, once they reach 70k+ miles, the price really seems to fall. I wonder if that’s due to people anticipating the need for a battery soon. I know I would be thinking about that, and wouldn’t pay as much as a result. So I wonder how the used EV market is doing overall with higher-mileage vehicles.

 

How is a used Prisus? At one point my son was thinking about finding one and replacing the battery, he seemed to think it was a good decision.

 

I think if manufacturers could economically produce and sell solar panels on vehicles that would last as long as the car and be affordable to the consumer, they’d be looking into it already. Maybe they are.

 

I think they hold up ok because they’re hybrids. I do wonder if they can be driven as just an ICE if the battery fails.

 

The tree removal guy we use drives a beat up Prius to quote jobs. He has over 400,000 miles on it with minimal trouble and says it’s the original battery. I can get on board with hybrid tech.

 

https://us.ecoflow.com/products/100w-flexible-solar-panel?variant=40133447974985

they say there isn’t enough space for panels to make it worth it. I am of the thinking, we need to take what we can get for now and things will get better. We have a Rav4 Prime, it’s a plug in hybrid that we get about 50 miles off a charge, typical day we use 20 plus miles, if I could get even 5 miles from solar charging, that would be great, 1/4 of my daily usage would be from solar.

I wonder how much the electric companies are involved with all this. Lobbyist are a very powerful influence.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/22/ford-to-break-out-ev-business.html

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...billions-as-company-invests-in-new-technology

Seems Ford acknowledged they are losing now, but see it as being a big win in a few years.


https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-loses-nearly-60000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold

this article talks about how increased production will flip the losses to profit, which makes sense, produce more to reduce costs per unit, thus increase profit per unit.

 

Would you buy a used 12yr old EV with 180,000 miles?
Myself, I will sit out this great EV experiment…..I believe Toyota’s plan for hydrogen has merit.

 

How many people will buy an ICE with 180k? And if you have shopped used cars recently, they are looking for more than they are worth right now.

 

With that age and miles?
A couple times a year I have notes left under my wiper on my 33 year old 4Runner inquiring if I am interested in selling it.
BTW…I have a very close friend/engineer that worked the Tesla Fremont assembly line troubleshooting robotics production issues…..many horror stories on assembly practices. Production over quality was the rule, if it didn’t fit just bend it. If a problem arose and if he or a line worker halted the line they would be drawn and quartered.
At Toyota’s Tahara plant the line worker would be commended for spotting the problem.

 

I wouldn't buy an ICE vehicle that is 12 years old and 180,000 miles. Heck a 4Runner at that age and mileage would set you back over $20k.

 

And a potential new battery pack + R&R labor?

 

We can purchase solar panels for our own vehicles, install them, and then determine whether the cost outweighs the benefit. That's probably less expensive than asking automakers to create form-fitting panels for the hoods, roofs, and trunks of all their different models and variations. I bet that would add at least $500 to the cost of a vehicle when you take into consideration the dozens or hundreds of different panels an automaker would have to stock, plus marrying the solar panels to the car's computer and electronics, etc. I think I would agree with those who say there's not enough space. I have 80 miles round-trip to work every day, so in my case, a 5-mile gain is meaningless.

 

Sing it, brother! It is no longer about political parties, it is about the super-wealthy versus the rest of us, making us fight over the scraps as they take everything. Our nation is not broke. The money is being stolen and spent on corporate and billionaire interests. Time to start spending our tax dollars on us, finally! (rant off)

 

I've bought many Toyotas over the years with 180k+ miles on them. And I've kept even more past the 220k range.