We will possibly know June 8?

Not sure if it’s been brought up, but appears the GX will be revealed next week…

https://pressroom.lexus.com/coming-june-8-the-all-new-2024-lexus-gx/

should give a little insight to what the future holds.

 

That's about what it will look like. More info in link.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/best-look-yet-at-2024-lexus-gx-140947/

Toyota will be using the TNGA-F platform (same as Land Cruiser 300, Tundra, Tacoma, Sequoia) which can easily change length and width so the new 4Runner is not necessarily obliged to have the same wheelbase and track as the Land Cruiser Prado and Lexus GX460 which all use the Land Cruiser J150 platform.

Also, there's no need to assemble the 2024 4Runner in Japan as the Mexican, Texas and Indiana assembly lines are now equipped to produce vehicles with the TNGA-F platform. Theoretically this should lower the price as the consumer will not have to pay the 25% import tax AKA the chicken tax.

Edit: The 4Runner is taxed as a passenger vehicle at 2.5% and not as a light truck at 25% as stated above. See lower down in this thread for more information.

 

gotta tell you, I wouldn’t buy one made in the Americas. Not even here at this point, the bar is so low compared to Japanese expectations and cultural drive to excel.

as someone who works in manufacturing, a bolt isn’t simply a bolt. What matters is how stringent the standards for assembly are maintained.

I saw an instance where basic structural welding was miss measured over 2” on a 10’ part with caulk to patch the gap like someone who buys flex seal and all of a sudden becomes a carpenter. I’d seen finger painting more precise.

keep in mind this was for a billion dollar end user, who simply cheaped out and didn’t get them done in the US as they did previously.

 

I'm with you on this. There is a massive difference in quality of assembly between my 2019 T4R and my 2015 Tacoma TRD Sport. They really don't compare.

 

The 4Runner doesn't have the 25% chicken tax. It only had it in 2 door form which is why Toyota ended the 2 door model back in early 1990's.

 

gotta tell you, I’d pay any tax for a vehicle built right.

look into the history of Mercedes Benz, they had quite the pedigree behind the scenes… arguably the best automaker of all time.

 

Agree 100%. My last 4 vehicles have all been manufactured in Japan and they have been extremely high quality and reliable. They’ve made me lazy when it comes to working on vehicles, nothing ever breaks or fails.

 

While I agree that my current 4Runner and my previous 4Runner are much more solidly put together and have way fewer squeaks and rattles as my 2017 Tacoma, the Tacoma was still better quality-wise than 90%+ of the other vehicles on the road.

 

This will be interesting. Thank you for posting.

 

Thanks for adding this. I was unaware of the distinction and did some research. I had sometimes wondered why the Japanese SUVs went from two doors to four doors almost overnight back in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Now I know.



And here's the next paragraph:




And here's a link to the article:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/20...ally-created-a-new-way-around-the-chicken-tax


Thanks again. I learned a lot.

 

Agree 100%. One big reason why I bought 5th gen. It wanted to own "last of its kind", and if they actually move manufacturing to Mexico etc. I would be happy I made the right choice.
If not I can always be in the market for next gen sooner than I thought ;-)

 

Can someone tell me what this tax is? All trucks manufactured outside of US have to pay 25% tax? Is that the reason we don't get Hilux here?

 

It's the so-called "Chicken tax" Have a look at this article from Hemming's -- it explains it really well.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/20...ally-created-a-new-way-around-the-chicken-tax

 

The last golden question, how do they avoid the chicken tax on the Extra Cab since it would fall in the 2 door category or does that model require CT?

 

Are you referring to Toyota trucks like the Tacoma? They are all made in Mexico so no import tax as per the North American Free Trade Agreement.

 

Yeah thanks for the link @HotelMedicis
The tax seems archaic now, wonder why they won't just sunset it.

 

Yes, so Mexico is how they get around it, thank you.

 

Following your chicken tax tutorial, I posted a speculation about 2 doors in the speculation thread.

https://www.4runners.com/threads/6th-gen-speculation-thread.20634/page-16#post-460253

 

But the maintenance cost of ownership after base warranty period is not a joke.
Same with BMW and Land Rovers.

 

they aren’t meant to be economy cars.

Everything is a compromise, a Kia is a compromise of reliability against cost.

a Mercedes compromises cost, in the pursuit of perfection. They lead every class.

the caveat is a complicated machine that has a lot of failure points. The wealthy compromise a large sum of money for such a machine.


Look at the Karl Benz philosophy, their performance in every racing circuit, and how many patents they hold… no one compares.

 

I have wondered how their camping vans fair. I don't know what its called but I have seen these tall camping vans that folks live our of. I wonder if they compromise reliability and function over ... handling and power.

 

you seem to forget that in the rest of the world Mercedes is a number 1 truck and diesel engine producer. They make motor cars for almost any application, in fact the G series is one of the most durable and capable off road vehicles on the planet. The leather interior and the clowns that drive them do not change this fact.

this idea that a car company is “sports car” or luxury company is false. You have companies competing for market share and profits, simple and plain.

the difference is in the engineering approach (or in dodges case, what level of turd can we still get people to buy and mark it up to unjustifiable prices).

 

Is G series same as G wagon?
If yes why does it drop so much in value in used market, if its so reliable.
I was genuinely curious about the mercedes camping vans, how they fare in reliability dept. I know sedans probably have different focus.

 

did you know the “reusable” space shuttle gets a myriad of components rebuilt after ever landing? unfortunately rule #1 is more parts more problems. I will never sit here and say the Germans do it simpler than the Japanese, that matters. it’s interesting in terms of the values however, as people will pay 100k for an air cooled Porsche where leaking fluids is a sign of life and accepted by owners.

what made Japanese cars reputable is no more. Take for instance the honda accord. Do you know what made the car reliable? Almost archaic fuel management, single overhead cam, 4cylinder, 50hp/ltr, 16” wheels if you were lucky, and push locks. Now think back how many people have you seen at advanced auto with a door apart or a corner lifted? even reliable cars, opinions are subjective. A lot of the frustration is not the complication, it is in fact in the effort required to repair. Almost every guy has replaced plugs/wires/distributor, few understand how to look at measuring blocks and interpret electrical pulses.

the bitch of it all: all cars are built that way now. The gen 6 will suffer, and turbo motors in the hands of people who don’t maintain them are disastrous. Mercedes s class cars in the 80s (and the Volvo 240 for that matter) could not be killed, I know people with ones 40 years old with cracked everything but I’ll be damned if they don’t drive like a boat on glass water.

the only reason they’re reputation died was because they chose to be first in making the switch (and continually lead the pack) in technologies always pushing. It took the Honda civic 25 years to have what the s500 did back when beepers were cool.

that is why they get a bad wrap, but thank them…. 90% of what’s in the 4Runner is indirectly traced back to race programs and innovators like Mercedes.

 

Is this low resale value across the board? Or, is it better on the diesel versions?

 

that’s a mixed bag, but I would say diesel has an unfavorable view in the us sadly. Also, what made diesel engines cool was they would just run… no fuss they just kept going. That’s changed with emissions and electrical systems over mechanical fueling.

upside is a lot of guys convert to run biodiesel which is both cheap and can be made at home.

 

To the root of your question, if it were me (and I was willing to properly maintain it) then yes a Mercedes van can be an excellent buy.

If you want something that is bomb proof, but a 2010’s Chevy/Ford van as beefed up as you can (biggest motor/towing options).

those are the last of the tanks

 

Yeah, newer emissions requirements really screwed up diesels. It doesn't seem like they're really worth it anymore unless you really need the towing power.

 

When you say Mercedes compromise cost to pursue perfection, what do you mean by perfection?

Modern mercedes don’t seem to be exceptionally reliable, and generally seem difficult and expensive to repair/maintain. They also seem to require expensive work more frequently than japanese (less complex?) cars. I’m not a Mercedes expert, so correct me if these perceptions are unfair.

A car that is frequently down for maintanance and unavailable to be used by the owner is a problem. A perfect vehicle that requires excessive maintainance and the reduced utility that goes along with that, is a white elephant.

I recall reading about a recent speech from the head of mercedes that essentially agrees (regarding the luxury vehicles at least). They were explicitly planning on developing vehicles that were not “bullet-proof”. With the reasoning being that the financial health of the company required it (to sell more cars). And it seemed they thought this was a good strategy because their “luxury” customers wanted new cars every few years anyways.

That speech made me lose respect for Mercedes, because they just admitted their plan was to cannibalize the value of the company’s legacy…essentially admitting that they consider their customers are idiots, or that they have no problem taking advantage of rich customers by selling them a product that had little value besides the nameplate.

 

I dressed that posts ago, that’s every maker. Cost prohibitive otherwise, look at everything packed in for 40k for an sr5. I mean abs probably costs the manufacturer 5k all in.

they’re still making the best turd sandwiches.