My On-going Audio Journey

I thought I’d share my audio journey with you folks. Some background, I was a DB drag nut back in the 90s, dipped into some SQL’ish-oriented gear in my 4th gen (Pioneer P880PRS * Seas RW165 * Morel MDT12 * Crystal CMP 12), worked on quite a few 3rd gens, and now onto my (new to me) 2011 limited with JBL. I'm still a noob with DSP tuning but love tinkering with it. Scroll to the end of this post for links to the gear/tools I've been playing with.

Current Set Up in the 5th Gen

• Widebands: CDT Unity 8Plus
• Mids: SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-4
• Everyday Sub: Dayton RSS315HO-44 1.8ft3 enclosure tuned to 28hz
• Camping Sub (I take the ported box out when camping): Crystal CMP12 1ft3 sealed enclosure
• Amp/DSP: Audiocontrol D5.1300
• Headunit: Atoto F7

Front Stage History


I’ve currently settled on CDT Unity 8Plus widebands in a 2way active setup, paired with the SB17MFCs in the doors. The widebands are crossed at 500hz 24db slope, SB17s from 65-500hz 24db slope. They are in PVC caps mounted to the stock dash speaker grills. In case you end up tackling a similar setup, before drilling holes in the stock grills make sure you measure the distance from the windshield and a-pillar first. I didn’t, only used the underside of the speaker grill as a point of reference. Long story short my right pod is an inch or two farther from the windshield than the left. They aren’t symmetrical… DOH!!! The PVC caps aren’t the most OEM looking things but man-o-man do they sound a million times better than any speaker I tried in the dash. Stage is wider, imaging is clearly identifiable. My stage is not nearly as wide as a 3rd gen with tweets in the sails, but is wider than most 5th gens I have sat in. Here is a brief rundown of different speakers I have tried:

• Infinity REF coax 3.5” coax in the dash – noticeably better than stock, but not in the same league as any component set.
• JL C2 Evos – I tried these passive with the included crossovers and active, but these were only “meh”. They definitely couldn’t handle the power I was throwing at them. I had some major harshness… almost piercing to ears from 1khz to 2.4khz. I tried to tame them down across these frequencies, but at -9db they lost “liveliness”. Midbass was abysmal (compared to the SB17s)
• SB29RDCN + SB17 – I tried these after the JLs hoping the larger SB29s would solve the harshness issues (they didn’t). I was able to cross these as low as 2khz without noticeable distortion but even then 1khz-2.4khz was still a nightmare to tune.
• CDT Unity 8Plus + SB17 – The jump from ¾” JL tweets to the almost 3” SB29s was a step in the right direction so I thought I’d give some widebands a try in the dash. The CDTs are always on sale so I picked them up during their black Friday sale. I played with XO from 400-700hz, but still couldn’t tame my arch nemesis: 1khz-2.4khz. The vocal range sounded great, but between the harshness issues and the lackluster 5khz+ range I had to turn to more drastic measures. With the widebands in PVC caps with the left speaker pointed at the driver’s right ear and the right speaker aimed at the passenger’s left ear, things finally started to come together. I still have some minor cancellation/summing issues, but I won’t tackle that until my UMIK-1 arrives. I’ll eventually fab something to the sail panels, but I’m scared they’ll look out of place with 3” speakers. The SB17s have more midbass than any 6.5” I’ve heard WITHOUT its own dedicated enclosure (just some heavily deadened doors).

Front stage summary: I hate the stock dash locations. This is the first time having a vehicle with speakers in the dash firing at the windshield, and I guess my novice tuning/install abilities just aren’t up to the task of making a 2way active system work from the dash. All my beaming & harsheness went away as soon as I got the widebands pointed on axis (in the PVC caps), and the upper 5khz+ finally came to party.

Side note - For those looking at some budget components that would be a good upgrade from coax speakers in the dash, look into the Morel Maximo 6 or the Alpine S65c. Although I didn’t try either of these in my 5th gen, I’ve installed these in a few 3rd and 4th gens with tons of success. And the best part, they are right around $150.

Sub(s) History

I’m currently using a Dayton RSS315 in a 1.8 ft3 enclosure tuned to 28hz, crossed from 20hz to 65hz. Although 500 watts doesn’t do this sub justice, it has a solid low end (20-30hz) and can be had for around $220. I hate the size of the box to make it sound this good, hell the port alone is about half a cubic foot. When I go camping I swap the sub out for an old Crystal CMP12 in a 1 ft3 sealed box I had lying around from the 1990s. Here are some other subs I played with in the 5th gen:
Dark Green: RSS315 Ported Light Green: RSS315 Sealed Red: JL 10w3 Blue: CMP12 Orange APS8D

• Audison APS8D – I tried this sub first, mounted in the stock JBL enclosure which supposedly has about .4 ft3 of airspace. It is super musical in this configuration but it just didn’t have the output I wanted. It couldn’t handle 500 watts and was regularly bottoming out at higher volumes. Great sub, just not loud enough.
• Crystal CMP12 – I use this in a 1 ft3 sealed box when I’m out camping and I have a bunch of junk to haul around. I had this sub lying around collecting dust so I figure why not.
• JL 10w3 – My buddy let me borrow this sub in a .5 ft3 sealed box. Full disclaimer – I’ve never been a JL fan and this sub reminds me of why. For a sub that is almost 400 bucks I just expect more. To me it wasn’t any better than the 25 year old CMP12 I have (which was only seeing 300 watts because it is 4ohm SVC). I guess it isn’t fair to compare it to the CMP12 which has a box twice the size and more cone area, but I can’t justify spending that much money when it didn’t have a noticeable difference over the CMP. That being said, the CMP was a great sub in its heyday so I guess that’s good praise to be compared to it.
• Dayton RSS315HO-44 – This is currently the sub I use as my daily driver. I first tried it in a 1 ft3 sealed enclosure, which sounded great, but it didn’t come alive until I threw it in a 1.8 ft3 vented box tuned to 28hz. Now it hits them low notes like no other. It lost a bit on the top end, but luckily the SB17’s can handle being crossed over at 65hz. I’ve been told this sub can easily handle 1000 watts but I won’t tackle that til next “season” (I’m in the planning stages of removing my 3rd row seats and building a drawer system. I would love to fiberglass something to replace right rear plastics where the stock sub goes…).

One caveat about the Dayton HO (or many “SQ” subs): it sounds very different from most subs. It is a very low distortion subwoofer and almost sounds like it isn’t there. I wish I had a more scientific way to explain it, but when most subs “boom” or “brap”, the Dayton is more of a “woom”/”wap” sound. I know, it sounds ridiculous, but it’s a phenomenon many Dayton HO users have reported. It definitely isn’t for everyone, but man do I love it.

Amp/DSP
The Audiocontrol D5.1300 doesn’t get much love from the other audio forums, most will point you to Helix and Mosconi products. I decided to go with the D5.1300 because I got it for almost half off on ebay (with full manufacture warranty). If you’re willing to buy off ebay, don’t be afraid to use the “offer” option. I didn’t expect the seller to accept my offer but luckily for me he did.

• Pros: it delivers all the power I thought I needed (100 watts x4 @ 4ohms, 500 watts @2ohms); it offers me the control I needed for a 2 way active setup (crossovers, time alignment, etc).
• Cons: at the time I bought it, it only came with a 30 band graphic EQ (The latest software update now comes with parametric EQ). It also comes with a clipping light when it thinks you have a clipped signal, but using a cheap oscilloscope showed inconsistent results. Nothing too out of whack, but definitely 5-10% difference. The software drivers were a bit finnicky upon initial setup.

Head unit
The Atoto F7 I’m using isn’t the best thing around, but I had it in another vehicle which was totaled. It’s cheap, has android auto, million times better than dealing with the stock HU/JBL amp with the pre-processed signal going to the speakers, and doesn’t need an expensive adapter to work with steering wheel controls. I don’t have a picture of which stock connector/wires need to be tapped to get the steering wheel controls to work on the Atoto, but drop a message if you’d like me to snap a pic next time I’m wrenching on my center console.

Miscellaneous Gear

• PVC Caps for the CDT widebands: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-2-in-PVC-Schedule-40-Socket-Cap-PVC021161600HD/203811678
• Mounts for PVC Caps: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DWTYWS2?ie=UTF8
• Oscilloscope for setting gains: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09X385FPV?ie=UTF8
• YouTube clip explaining how to set gains using an o-scope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBNETr9AHwA
• Speaker adapter for front doors: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IIC60ZG?ie=UTF8
• Baffle Kit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B093SQYXW2?ie=UTF8
• Sound Deadening: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0751CBXBT?ie=UTF8
• Sound deadening roller: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015WJH4ZW?ie=UTF8
• Room EQ Wizard (REW): https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
• Gold standard for REW tuning guides (w/link to pink noise tracks): https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/jazzis-tuning-companion-for-room-eq-wizard.206881/
• WinISD for modeling subs: http://www.linearteam.org/
• Measurement Mics: https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1116/umm-6-usb-measurement-microphone and https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1 (I had trouble getting consistent results with the Umm6, so I have an Umik1 on order).

Wow that was a long write up. I’ll update if/when I ever get around to fiberglassing some custom sails and a sub setup taking place of the right rear plastics.

 

Update - my UMIK1 arrived today so I took a few measurements. For shiggles I compared against the typical JBL house curve. Here are the results (the target curve is bluish-light purple):

Overall

I definitely like a lot more bass than the target curve suggests but in general the frequency response across the board is not bad at all.

Sub (Dayton RSS315 HO)

I need to tame 32hz a bit more but man o man does this sub get down low.

Mids (SB17s)

My mids on the other hand left a lot to be desired... you can also tell where the gaps in EQ bands are. This'll be a job for another day.

Widebands (Unity8+)

There are a few areas that need a little work but nothing too bad. I tell myself that I don't need a real tweet yet and this graph verifies why I can hold off (for now). For those who haven't tried a wideband I highly encourage it, they're quite versatile. Mine handle tweet duties and are currently crossed over at 450hz. I've been told the AF GS25s can go even lower but for the 100 or so bucks I paid for the Unity8+ I'm more than happy.

I'll do some real tuning this weekend...

 

looking good, how did you add the target curve into the graph?

 

[disclaimer: I'm a total noob with REW] I used Justin Zazzi's tool (https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/sho...n-Zazzi-s-tuning-companion-for-room-eq-wizard) to come up with the target based on my crossover points. Saved the excel file. Loaded the file in REW > Preferences > House Curve Tab.

After taking a measurement you can compare the target curve you loaded by clicking on the EQ Tool in the tool toolbar.

I think this is the easiest way to do it but I'm sure more seasoned tuners may have a better workflow. I took more measurements this weekend, this time at a louder starting level, and my response wasn't nearly as nice as my previous post. I started seeing a huge null between 60-85hz. No amount of EQ/XO changes was helping. I need to investigate further.