Lift, Wheels and Tires - Loud and Tippy

Hello! New here...
So I bought a 2020 TRD Off Road for a steal of a deal. I bought it to be used on forest roads in the mountains and for the 4WD during snow season. I ski, mountain bike and rock climb so i go places not recommended for low lying cars or FWD.
It came lifted with Fuel wheels and 285/55R20 Ridge Grappler tires. The 4runner looks amazing and I love it. I was sold on the lift because I do need the clearance on some of the roads I go on. However the 4runner feels like I'm driving on glass when driving in the snow or rain on paved roads. It feels tippy and the tires are loud on paved roads. Sometimes I feel it even sliding as I round turns when its wet (and no I am not driving it like a sports car lol ).
So here's the question... a friend who is more knowledgeable with cars says that the wheels have a large negative offset, the tires are wide and the aggressive tread are all causing the problems I describe. I am looking for recommendations of changing out the wheels and tires. I have read through a lot of posts here but I am not a tire or lift expert (I am not even sure how much my lift is).

Any thoughts as to what I can do to get

1. Better control on paved roads
2. Quieter ride
3. Still have the traction I need on gravel forest roads or snow covered roads.

 

I’m on my second set of Ridge Grappler’s and love them. The hybrid thread design is very quite on paved roads in my experience.

Having said that, the RG’s do not have a good reputation for snow, ice and heavy rain conditions.

I live in the desert so winter driving is not a big factor for me. The few times I have driven in snow, I relied on the 4wd which works out just fine.

If I frequently encountered winter driving conditions, I would probably go with something else.

 

What type of lift does it have?

The whats the offset of the wheels? Also what psi are your tires at?

 

IMO every tire has a purpose. I would buy Ridge Grappler if I have terrain for rough terrain with rocks and mud. On pavement rain or snow would not work. For snow and Ice yet you want to use in gravel forest roads you should look at all terrain tires with 3 peak mountain snow flake symbol.

How comfy vs how strong you have to decide. Standard Load tires will be very comfy but have potential to puncture on a sharp edge of the rock or a stick. A Load E tire with 3ply side wall would be firm on pavement but very strong for offroad use.

Before another expensive mod try simple things like see if you can run them at 32/33 psi. See if you are ok with the comfort and may be improve grip on pavement.

If you have to change the tires may be look at 17in wheels and tire combo. Stock TRD Offroad wheels are best from factory to run 285/70R17 tires. It meets the minimum width requirement and have a good offset for minimum rubbing.

IMO previous owner went backwards on that TRD ORP downgrading from a better 17in wheel tire combo to a 20in wheel and tire setup. So potentially the previous owner did a bad job on the lift as well based on the bad choice of wheel size I see. If possible show us the pics of the lift so our members can help you with our ideas.

 

All things equal, the wider stance you have should make it less tippy and more stable.

The height could contribute to tippiness, but I’m lifted 2.5” front and 1.5” rear and dont feel unstable on stock wheels. That said, I’ve got a good set of shocks.

My guess is that your problem is in the tires and in the suspension setup itself.

1. Figure out how it was lifted. If you have spacers on stock shocks, look to get decent coils and quality shocks with better damping.

2. Check tires for weird wear patterns and feathering/cupping. Make sure you have correct air pressure.

3. Check alignment. If it was never aligned after the lift, you’ll have horrible traction for that reason alone.

 

Also, I guess your expectations may play a role in regard to the feeling of tippiness…. It won’t handle like a sporty car no matter what you do, but I generally dont find mine to feel unstable in normal driving.

However, it does feel scary if you ever have to do fast evasive actions at interstate speeds. You absolutely have to be on your toes in those situations, regardless of how good of a suspension you have. There is simply too much weight, and too much suspension travel in 4runners for it to be compared to a car.

The KDSS option will get you as close to car handling as you could expect during evasive maneuvers, because it has big fat sway bars. But any other 4runner should be treated with respect at fast interstate speeds.

 

Not sure if you’re question is directed towards me, but I’ll respond. I first ran 285’s when I had the Readylift 3/2 spacer lift. When I discovered the shortcomings of a spacer lift, I had it removed and bought 265’s. Both sets of tires were E load. Truck rides great with both tires. I decided to run the heavier E load tires because the off road trails in my area are covered in sharp lava rocks. I only go off road when it’s dry. I’m not into the mud thing.

Forgot to mention, I’m running the OEM TRD Pro rims.

 

Sorry it was meant for the op

 

No problem, thanks. Guess I had too much coffee today.

 

You already have good tires for what you’re describing. Swapping them out for some all season tire may not give you very good performance offroad. Going with a smaller set closer to stock size may help with the noise.

 

I had the same feeling and noise when my Tahoe had aggressive pattern A/T tires on 20" Methods. My 4Runner now has 285/70/17 Wildpeaks on 17x9 -12 wheels and feel very planted on snow or rain and very little noise. I'm not sure if it's the 20" vs 17" wheels/tires with extra sidewall made the difference, but that's my finding.

 

Nice rig and welcome!

1. Tires are only as good as thier rating. For snow/wet look for the 3 peak snowflake. I run KO2s in 285/55r20s and they are awesome in snow, gravel, dirt, but only meh in rain.

2. Mine also was purchased with an already installed 3" Ironman lift. I have recently found that the stock UCAs do not allow for optimal alignment specs. I bought some JBAs that'll be installed soon. I am sure this will reduce the floaty, wandering my rig currently demonstrates due to too low caster.

3. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here. I have no doubt you'll find what you need. There are hundreds of threads you can search if you don't get your answer on this one.

4. Good luck!

 

Thank you all for the responses! Again, I am a novice on tires and lifts so bear with me...
That said, I have no idea how it was lifted and can only assume the alignment was done after the lift. I don't see any wear on the tires. Here are some additional photos. I hope with the experts here you will be able to see what I have and maybe help me out some more...
Thanks again!

 

It looks like you got a spacer lift using the stock coil/shock. This can potentially cause damage in off road situations from overextension in front (can lead to ball joint failure/cv damage) or under-extension in the rear (can damage shocks by topping them out easily). They probably dont explain your traction problems. As for tippiness, stock shocks are soft, and dont control nosedive or lean well if you drive in a “sporty” manner.

Since you have a traction problem, I would say it’s worth verifying your alignment. Other than that, like it’s been mentioned, it just comes down to the tire compound itself.

 

Check your tire pressure

 

Interesting! Ok thanks for the information. So I think I am hearing I should get the lift redone (upgraded) to something other than stock shock etc? Suggestions? and should I try and go down to a 17" wheel?

 

This is my story/experience with a spacer lift.

https://www.4runners.com/threads/shock’ing-discovery.26659/

 

If you do off-road, it’s probably better to get rid of the spacers. Dobinsons makes some good stuff, and Crikey mike at Exit Offroad can set you up depending on how you use it. Depending on what you are experiencing when you say “tippy” changing out your UCA to one that allows more camber can increase your straight-line stability/steering return to center.

Again, it wont solve your traction problems if they are due to alignment, tire pressure, or if it’s just tire compound itself. So sort that out first unless you want to chase your tail on that front.


Looking at it again, I think rear shock may be aftermarket…If you take a picture of the bottom, you might be able to tell for sure.

 

Before making changes, check tire psi

 

Wow this really makes me want to switch out the spacers!

 

Just checked... 40psi

 

Depending on the tire (is it C load, e load, SL?) 40psi cold might be highish. Start walking that pressure down…maybe 2psi at a time…keep going and see if you feel a difference. I wouldnt go lower than 32 cold.

 

If I understood correctly, you're looking for the following three things:

1. Better control on paved roads

2. Quieter ride

3. Still have the traction I need on gravel forest roads or snow covered roads.

I would recommend having the lift kit removed and selling the wheels and tires and replacing them with a set of stock 4Runner wheels of your choice with stock size tires of good quality for your needs. In the winter, a set of good snow tires just can't be beat. I have had great success with brands such as Nokian and Kleber. For gravel forest roads in the non-snow months, a good set of road tires is fine. Michelin makes some great tires that will give you a quiet ride on pavement, longevity and good traction on gravel forest roads. On my Land Cruiser I used Michelin Defender LTX M/S that I got at Costco. Highly recommended.

 

This has crossed my mind as an option. I am looking for some clearance however because several times a year I am on forest roads that with my bike rack I might bottom out (my friend does often in his bronco on the same roads).

Again excuse my ignorance here (still doing my research on the lifts) but it sounds like I just have the OEM stock in with spacers? So I would need to have the spacers (lift) removed? or as mentioned have a better (new) lift kit installed.

 

Maybe look into a lift like the eibach pro truck lift.

And when it comes to wheel/tire size its all personal preference. 17"s, 18"s, 20"s doesn't really matter much for a daily driver...

 

Welcome and nice looking truck, congrats on good price. If I was rigging up for what your use will be I would get rid of the lift spacers, source some 4runner OEM wheels in either 17" or 20" if you like stiffer side walls for highway driving, and put on some Michelin Agilis Crossclimate 3 Peak M/S tires in Toyota recommended size and be drama free for the next decade. Somebody will buy those tough lookin Fuel wheels and knobby tires in heartbeat.

 

Got a pic of the bottom of the rear shock and the top of the coil spring? It might be aftermarket. Depending on what you have back there, the rear might be ok

 

If you remove the spacers, I would expect some rubbing. I second the recommendation on going to Dobinson's. I had spacers before getting the real lift, so I understand your "feelings".

The Ridge Grapplers are terrible on wet pavement at any psi. I went from them to some equally bad on wet pavement mud tires. So buy another set of rims and road tires for road driving or just slow down when it's wet or work on your drifting.

 

I’d sell the tires and wheels and go to a 265 or 275. The actual clearance difference is very small and the factory 17s are really nice. I ride on General Grabbers and leveled it. It’s good to go. Rides well on the street and off road.

 

Looks like you got enough help, but I will throw my 2 cents. I will give my advice from a budget point of view.

1. Look for anything obviously damaged (sometimes a good deal isn't a good deal). Hopefully this came certified pre-owned or you had a mechanic check it out.
2. It is a spacer lift? These ride poorly. I recommend a set of Bilstein 5100's for all four corners and a 1.5-2.0in coil spring (~$650). Set to the 1.5in setting in the front and good to go.
3. Are your tires inflated too little or too much?
4. Are the tires 10-ply (load range E)? These drive poorly, especially if not balanced with a road force balancing machine. You may want to consider getting a 6-ply tire (load range C).

Just my opinion, I don't think it is necessary to get rid of the wheels and tires. If you like the look, why change it? It won't solve the problem (save 10-ply tires). You could probably find some Trd-Off road or SR5 wheels for relatively cheap though.