Alignment Issues...UCA???

I installed my Eibach Pro Stage 2 (to make the truck level) a few months ago and had it aligned already twice! It appears to keep pulling to the left.

The UCA are stock as well as the wheels. It has 265 KO2s. On the inspection sheet the tread is wearing evenly and the tires are all properly inflated. There is no sign of uneven wear on the tires yet but I would like to correct the pulling before it does start to cause uneven wear.

I have been reading on other posts that the caster might be off and this could be due to the stock UCA. I was going to install the SPC UCA from the start but was advised I would be fine with leveling through the Eibach kit and stock UCA. But now it appears that I might have to get them afterall.

Here is a picture of the alignment specs. The caster is no where near the "+4" which I have been seeing.

So is this only fixed by the aftermarket UCA or can this be fixed on the stock UCA?

Also can someone give me some insight on the "thrust angle", looks to be off but doesn't specify a range to be in spec.

TIA

 

Just FYI, I previously had a 3” front / 2” rear lift with stock UCA’s and dealership was able to do an alignment with no issues. I don’t have the alignment sheet but it drove fine.

 

It looks like they didn’t actually align it.

It’s likely the toe was so far out it was affecting the camber reading. There no way they adjusted the lower control arms cams and the caster stayed dead nuts exactly where it was it. Either they didn’t adjust it, or they didn’t do a caster sweep after to see how it was actually effected, either way they didn’t do their job.

Thrust angle is a hugely important angle, it’s basically a measurement of how square the rear axle is to the vehicle. If the rear axle isn’t straight it wants to push the rear out to one side or the other while moving. I did Dobinsons adjustable rear control arms, adjusting the lower arms was able to get the thrust angle to damn near zero, which is ideal.

 

Is the caster adjustment something I have to specifically ask for or is this something they should be doing at all alignments? (Sorry, this is new to me).

And for the thrust angle, adjustable rear control arms? Can this be done with the KDSS? (KDSS is also new to me) Is the aftermarket lift springs the cause of the thrust angle to be off now? Obviously before the lift there was no pulling etc..

 

Doing more than just setting toe is new to some techs too. It's sad.
Had a shop once tell me caster and camber weren't adjustable on Toyotas.

We shouldn't have to ask for caster but we do just because people don't know their jobs.

Generally you want no more than about 0.5 difference between left/right sides for caster value. It's what causes pulling.

 

Great! (#$*&#%$!!!) I guess it also didn't help that I took it in to get aligned the day after thanksgiving when everyone was there to get their "discounted tires".

Guess I will have to call them and see what their willing and able to do to correct the caster. If not I will have to take it elsewhere where someone will be willing to at least attempt to correct it.

 

Had a alignment does few days ago since car was pulling to the right. Front was off and they were able to bring it into the correct range. Rear is off and they said there is no adjustment on rear so I am still out in the back. What are my options here? How can I get rear into the correct range? Stealership time?

 

My experience is that the stock UCAs are unable to get to the 4deg of caster. Once I changed the UCAs the shop was able to dial in to 4deg and 3.8. Steering is much more precise. As a side note, I am VERY particular (aka PITA) about straight steering wheel and near perfect tracking so I am sure I am reaching for something that may not be possible. My current alignment took the shop foreman about 3 hours to complete. He walked me back multiple times to show how sensitive it is to adjust caster/camber and how they play off eachother on our 4runners. Addtionally, the folks at JBA were instrumental in teaching me alot. I work on my own vehicles, but have never been well versed on suspension and alignment. In any case, I was unable to get a quality alignment until I changed control arms.

 

As you increase your lift height, it will be harder and harder to get higher caster numbers with stock UCA's.

My caster is maxed out at +3.6* with a 1.6" lift. If you are lifted to 2.5", you may struggle to get +2.5* of caster with stock UCA's (for example).

+4* of caster is not a requirement, but it is a good setting if you are at stock height or have aftermarket UCA's with your lift and are able to get there. But you might feel the drivability is fine at +3.0* if the alignment tech is able to get that with your set-up.

What's your front lift height?

 

I adjust anything from the package, so in the front should 2.75” and 1” in the rear.

I guess right at this moment I would be “ok” with being even somewhat close on the caster. Right now .9 to 2.2 seems way too off to me.

I’m sitting at the shop typing this. The manager looked at my alignment sheet and literally said “You’re caster is all jacked up”.

They’re going to take a look at it and see if they can do anything with the stock UCA. He told me if they caster is maxed out already with the lift that there won’t be much that can be done.

Guess it’s time to order the SPCs

Will update on the results…..

 

If they can get the caster to around 2.2 (or something close) at least you'll have the opportunity to drive it properly aligned and know that's as good as it's going to be with stock UCA's. If it's not good enough for you at 2.2, then you'll know it's time for aftermarket UCAs.

 

It's more about getting driving feel you like than exact numbers. Predictable handling.

As a point of comparison, i dont even know my caster numbers. It tracks straight, handles the way i like, and tire wear looks normal after 30k miles. I DIY my alignment.

Rear axle is often off center slightly after a rear lift. Most people don't even notice or care on their own 4Runners about this. Not worth cost of adjustable track bar to me as long as it launches and stops straight.

Edit. FYI
Caster too low will make it feel like it is wandering on the road needing constant small corrections to stay in your lane. High caster makes it follow grooves and/or the steering will feel "heavier".
Having about 0.5 difference side to side in caster accounts for side slope of the road (aka "crown") to keep you tracking straight. If you have equal caster, truck will typically pull toward downhill side which is usually the ditch.

 

I installed a 2.5 in lift with stock UCAs, but it came out closer to three inches when I measured after install. After alignment my camber was just short of the factory spec (2.2 to 2.3 iirc). Both sides were even, and it tracks true. However, the it’s a bit more lively than before as it needs a bit more corrections. I dont mind how it feels (actually I enjoy it).


They should be able to get both sides even on caster with your stock UCAs. I cant think of any reason they couldnt.

After things are all evened out, you can figure out if UCAs are necessary, if you want a more planted feeling.

 

With the numbers you provided , it may be more of a shop issue than UCA issue. Just my 2 pennies worth. Even with stock control arms you should be able to get closer to the 3 side on caster. Been there.

 

UPDATE: So after my trip to the shop again yesterday they were able to adjust my caster on the alignment. They were able to get the driver side to 1.7 and the passenger side on 2.1. This isn't perfect and still is very slightly pulling to the left. The shop manager told me that it is more difficult to get the perfect alignment on stock UCA after lift. OH and also after this alignment the truck was returned to me with a "VSC" light?? The light on the dash that look like traction control.

Today I spent my day calling a few dealerships(since the shop said it wouldn't be able to calibrate it) to figure out one that could do a "ZPC" (zero point calibration). Half of them had no clue what I was talking about and the other said to bring it in for a "diagnostic".

I decided to look for the ZPC procedure on here and was able to find a write up and a video on Youtube. Had my bud at work come help me tap some paperclips together(literally) and got the code cleared LOL.

What a mess.....With all this I think its going to be better to just go and get the aftermarket UCA to make things easier for future alignments. Will update with a picture of the new alignment sheet for anyone interested.

 

This is why when people ask I would tell um buy once cry once.

Never know if the UCA's are needed or not until after so why chance it.

At least they are fairly easy to replace.

 

I’m not going to cry about it. It’s a learning experience. I was going to get them from the day I purchased my lift but I was told that as long as I stayed under 3” I would be fine on stocks. Guess that is not the case if you want to drive straight LOL.

And yea even a newbie like me seems like a straight forward job. Get to spend some time with my pops turning some wrenches.

 

I'd bet they could still get rid of the pull by reducing passenger caster just a hair without sacrificing camber much but they and you both are likely tired of messing with it for a bit.

 

I’ve made a few purchases in my life that weren’t the best, but I never cried about it. Not sure where that saying originated?

Must be a 4Runner forum thing.

 

You actually want the passenger side caster to be slightly higher than the Drivers side to account for the crown in the road. Pulling to the left is much more likely related to toe than the difference in caster. 0.4 difference is about where you typically want to be.

@Acruz541 What are the rest of the numbers after the new alignment (toe and camber)?

It took UCAs to get me into the high 3s after a 2/2 lift. I used Ironman UCAs for the rubber bushings. No complaints and I am very satisfied with them. However get whichever ones you want - jba, spc etc... it is money well spent after a lift. Just did 100 miles on the highway this evening and rode smooth as butter with no wandering.

 

Updated Alignment Sheet:

Here is the updated specs for the truck. As I mentioned it is not perfect, but it drives fairly straight now. But I do believe at this point I rather upgrade the UCA and make it easier to get aligned.

@TrueTexas what lift do you have? I have the Eibach Pro Stage 2 and thinking of pairing it with SPC. I know its mostly a preference thing but I always like to the peoples choice.


*dont know why the picture is sideways.

 

You will most certainly benefit from the UCAs. Not just in the numbers but driveability will improve. Looking at your caster, it probably feels like you are on ice skates.

My lift is Bilstein 5100s all around. Fronts are set at 1.85" with a .25 spacer on the Drivers side. The rear adds bilstein 1" springs and a 10mm spacer on the Drivers side. The spacers correct the lean.

The Ironman UCAs gave me approx 2 degrees additional caster.

 

Rather than the SPC UCA's, I'd recommend Dobinson's with 3 degrees of caster correction built in. Literally any allignment shop will have zero issues with these, they are rebuildable and function very well. I get no pull regardless of crown with mine.

 

Ditto. You get what you pay for. Dobs are awesome.

 

Pardon my lack of knowledge but would I be able to fix my rear toe and thrust angle as seen in this alignment printout with them?

 

Would think so. You’re fine brother. I’ve got the dobs with 2.5” of lift and it’s spot on on all alignment measurements. Could also be the tech aligning.

 

I think I'm gonna try another alignment place before I do any of this. I got this done on a Friday near closing and maybe the guy wanted to get outta there. Thanks for the reply. Appreciate you.

 

That’s a solid idea. It can take time to align well. Usually a dedicated 4x4 shop will align well. Let us know and hope it goes smoothly!

 

Thank you! I am waiting on an appointment this week with another shop. Fingers crossed.