Is slight steering wheel vibration normal with AT tires?

Any news?

 

They replaced the tires under warranty and everything is perfect!

 

Good to hear it got fixed through a tire warranty. Honestly I've installed thousands of tires in my lifetime and could always pick out a bad tire upon installation. They needed excessive wheel weight to balance by comparison or the balance machine would constantly ask for a extra amount of weight in a different location upon a recheck spin. Unfortunately most shops only worry about it when the customer complains. Squeaky wheel gets the grease so to speak. "Knock on wood" my 4Runner has been fine with both the factory Bridgestone Duelers and the Michelin LTX tires I just put on TRD rims. At least it's not the Ford "Death Wobble".

 

Or Jeep.

 

Here’s my triple S (steering shimmy syndrome) situation. I originally had a small shimmy around 60mph with the old tires, which were brand new when I got the car, just before turning 50k. Then at 80k I had the 4R leveled with bilsteins and stiffer springs and hence I replaced the tires with Toyo ATs, with an alignment. Love the look, loved the new suspension parts, and didn’t really have any issues, just a slight shimmy. This was spring 2021.

Fast forward to march this year and the car feels out of alignment and out of balance. Have a roadtrip on the horizon so I balance, rotate, and alignment. Things get worse. Horrible shake, at all highway speeds. Take it back. I was told that the one wheel may have been wharped, pothole probably (NE OH and lots of driving to PA and NY). Roadtrip to GA was not great, shimmy from 60-72. Can’t get it balanced so I take it to Toyota to road force all four tires. Take another roadtrip to OKC. Still not great but bad tire is on back rear so still slight vibration at all highway. New wheel got delivered and road force balanced. Roadtrip to Delaware and 70+ gives me the shimmy.

Start looking into new tires because I love my 4R and don’t want to get rid of it, which I was looking at GX460 due to frustration. Decided today to try other options since tires have great tread on them, even after putting 25k on them. Went and put chalk lines on the tires and checked the pressure. All tires but one reading 28-29 psi with one tire at 38. Never once had a low tire signal. Put them all at 38 and going to run some errands so I will report back if the shimmy has lessoned or worsened. Never even occurred to me that the dealer and tire shops would not check the tire pressure. Guess I should have too!

 

I learned a long time ago, that after having my tires serviced I check the psi the next day while cold…always a fuck up.

 

Some of the shimmy was resolved but not completely. Need more time at highway speeds to see my new norm. Also bought a better pressure gauge for accuracy.

 

UPDATE to previous post: Put all the tires at 38 psi and vibration is 95% gone, with the exception around 65 mph. Lesson learned: A) Never assume the shops check your psi and B) some 4R are super sensitive to balance and psi.

 

Will be interesting to see if this improvement continues for you. In my experience it’s easy to confuse correlation with causation when it comes to the shimmy. Mine was so intermittent and hard to predict that it could go away for awhile just by coincidence after a change like PSI. After 100s of miles, it became clear that lower or higher PSI was not a solution. At least not for me.

The only thing that worked consistently was switching back to my OEM wheels and tires. I’ve put more than 15k miles on them with no shimmy, regardless of factors like PSI. But my other set of wheels, with two new sets of tires attempted on them, would do it sometimes and not others over a period of tens or hundreds of miles.

 

Definitely interested in how this plays out. I have a few highway trips coming up, 6-8 round trip. If it continues, I will replace the toyos with a less aggressive tires and see how it does. I have OEM wheels so only tires can change the shimmy.

 

Imho, it comes down to the skill level of the technician.

I’m now on my second set of Nitto RG’s, mounted and balanced by my other local Toyota dealership. No vibrations at all speeds. I did ask the service manager about how they balance and he said they use the road force method.

 

I have been driving other 5th gen 4R in order to compare with mine on the level of "vibration" or shimmy...whatever the term is, and I have come down to the conclusion that as we modify the system with bigger tires, new suspension, this and that other thing, the symmetry changes dramatically over the stock one and so it will vibrate or shake no matter what. I came from owning two different tacomas and it happens in those units even with minimal changes. I saw recently a video on YouTube by the wonderland...or wonderlost...couple which are very very nice folks with great info and he goes into showing a potential fix for the vibration. I lt seems a very elaborate fix but I am sure it is related to the different angles that we have changed with the modifications. For me, I am more about making sure the safety of the setup is there. I can deal with a little vibration but not too much. I did notice that just a simple tire rotation helped earlier this year and maybe later I would try this road forced alignment which I have never seen how it is done as it seems others have done it with great results.
All in all....this isn't a Cadillac or a low rider.

 

Mine had it right off the lot.

 

Here’s a simple little trick…
Lay your hand flat on a tire, focused on the inner and outer couple edges of the tread. Run your hand over the surface of the tire treads back and forth. First one direction then the other.

If it feels smooth in one direction. And your hand catches edges of treads in the other direction, there’s a potential source of vibration.

This uneven wear is typical on the front tires. They need to be rotated to the rear and switched sides to even the tread back out.

 

Rearward cross is recommended for rear wheel drive & 4WD vehicles. Move rear tires to front (same side) & front tires crossed to the rear. I started doing it this way about 5 years ago & it seems to have helped with uneven wear.

As to the OP’s question regarding vibration, I’ve found almost all AT tires (particularly aggressive ones) have mild vibration when cold & then smooth out within 2-3 miles even with perfect balance/alignment. This usually stops or improves after the tires get a 32’d or two wear on them. Some just flat spot & do so for the life of the tire…similar to aforementioned vibration only more pronounced & again, only when cold. If the vibration is happening at certain speeds (warmed up) then I would chase down the issue.

If the tires are new & you have a slight vibration when cold you can pretty much ignore it for a thousand miles or so. If you still have vibration once tires are broken in there’s a problem with balance/alignment or wheel out of round.
JMHO…

 

No, it shouldn't.

I have a lift, and 2 sets of oversized LT tires. 0 shimmy.

If you're talking about the vibration caused by aggressive tires with big lugs, that's a whole other story, and certainly can't be blamed on the vehicle.

 

I get my tires balanced before every long trip, usually once or twice per year. Some tire shops offer lifetime balancing

 

Interesting read. Mainly because I have the viberation. but only at 50-60mph and only sometimes. And it happens on the beginning of the journey but goes away. So I'm pretty much certain my issue is tire related(flat spotting after sitting).

But tacomas and 4runners are both plagued with steering wheel viberations. Its well discussed.

I am going to have my tires road forced balanced again at a 4wd shop. Only because I think the dealer did a shitty job. If its still there. Then I may start to re-torque and inspect every moving part.

I love my 4runner, Ill take it back to stock and run highway tires if I have to.

 

You won't have to. I actually had some shimmy with the stock tires. No shimmy with the current setup.

 

Its the tires.

 

Mine had it when I bought it, just between 55-60 though with highway tires.

Same. Already started looking at which highway tires I want.

I kept the stock size but the shimmy has gotten worse since upgrading to bilsteins and stiffer springs.

 

Mine came back pretty hard after my 750 mile trip, heard a thunk at some point and noticed today that the sticky weights on my driver side front wheel are now deleted…never went away fully before but wondered why it came back to an higher force. The shit list never ends.

 

As others have stated, its important to have a proper road force balance.

The dealer is kinda a joke to get anything done proper without asking. After the dealer road forced balanced my tires, they told me the 50-60mph shimmy is normal with the "aggressive " all terrain tires i have(what a joke). My tires are cooper at3 4s which imo is very mild.

But a good highway tire is the michelin defender.

 

So, you had a shimmy with highway tires, and now you're switching back to highway tires to get rid of the shimmy?

 

I do not expect to fully get rid of it but at least try to minimize it. The tires that were on it weren’t that great but the shimmy wasn’t as bad as it is now.

I still have 9/32 tread on these tires so I think it will take me a while to get rid of them.

 

I'd just hate to see you get tires you don't really want, and still have issues. I just read through all of your posts in this thread. Obviously, you didn't give up easily.

I saw that you had them rebalanced at the dealership. Have you had them rebalanced anywhere else (I know you shouldn't have to). A chain couldn't get my Toyos right, so I went to an off-road shop and they got them perfect. I might try another shop before living with it.

 

I initially had them installed and balanced at 4Wheel Parts, then re-balanced at Big 5 tires (both in CA). This spring I had my alignment, rotation, and balance done at a local tire chain. Took it back and they said one of my wheels was wharped. Not surprising if you’ve driven any amount of time in Oakland, CA or the NE states with winter. Had local dealer road force balance them (only shop I could find with road force machine…called 5 different shops). Got a new wheel and took it to dealer to have it installed and road force balance. Helped but not great. Then messed with air pressure. Again, helped but not solved.

The frustrating part is we are a one car family so I am not the only one who drives this vehicle and it is our road tripping car. We drive it a lot. It also sucks that my ‘96 drove like a Cadillac and this one I can’t get right.

 

My shimmy wasn’t that bad and had my first rotation today, and on the way home on the thruway it was fing bad. I swear it has to be the shitty stock dunlops, I’m taking the gamble getting my 265/70r17 ko2s and hoping for the best tomorrow. I had 3 sets on my Tahoe and never had a issue, they are a good tire that has never let me down. I have faith!!!

 

I’ve got shimmy between 52-57 mph on my 285’s (nitto grapplers) this just started within the last month or so and I’ve got a little over 5k miles on the tires. (Tires/wheels/lift were all installed at delivery) I’m thinking I may need to take it back to the off-road tire shop that installed for the dealership and have them try to fix it. Do any of you guys know what PSI is best for these tires? I would love to try that first.

 

What psi are you at now?