Towing with 3" lift issues

I love my 2016 4x4 Toyota 4runner with 3" lift. I pull a small 2800 lb casita travel trailer. I have not been able to solve the problem with the squat or with receiver/coupler height . I purchased a $500 Andersen Weight Distribution Hitch and I think I'm ready to pitch it. I have read some threads that say Toyota does not recommend a weight distribution hitch. Has anyone heard this too? Today I purchased a 5 1/2" regular drop receiver and I may have to give up on weight distribution. Even with the 8" drop (make the receiver at 21") it's still too high for the 14" casita coupler. I have issues every time i unhook the trailer as it jumps off my truck terribly and last week came completely off the wood block and jack landed onto the ground. What will help with the two issues a) lowering the receiver closer to the casita coupler and b) stop the bad squatting going on with my 4runner? appreciate any words of advice

 

Not sure what exactly to recommend for this bud. I am anxious to see how my new ORP goes my 2,500lb boat next year. But I am sure my tongue weight is a lot less than what you have with camper.

Have you heard of E trailer.com? I have called a few times and they had some good techs who gave advice on phone. I also have a trailer shop by me as well that has helped me out with various issues.

wish you the best and hope you get it figured out.

 

What lift do you have? And by 3" lift your front and rear went up 3". Stiffer rear springs may help. With the much sag it can't be good for towing.

Have you also tried to get your tongue weight?

I will need to measure my receiver and trailer heights but I only use a 3" drop to tow. I also do not get nearly as much rear end sag as you are getting.

Boat is about 1200lbs. Loaded as in the pic below I'd say about 2500ish. I've never weighed it loaded so I don't know. Yes the trailer jack is on the ground but its barely holding any weight and I believe this pic was when I first brought the boat home so I was just using a simple 1" drop hitch.



Sorry I think I'm wrong I use a 3" now with the Tundra which is not lifted. I will need to measure 4R.

 

I dont tow much, but that squat seems to suggest a really heavy tongue weight. Judging from the picture, it looks like a lot of mass is in front of the trailer axle. How is the casita loaded on the inside? Where are the heavy appliances? Maybe packing it very rear heavy to alleviate tongue weight? Not too light on the tongue though, obviously you need enough tongue weight to be stable.

Also, if you have stock springs, either heavier weight springs, or those firestone airbags?

 

I think and I am no expert but that on most boat trailers you can sometimes move an axle forward or backward to increase or decrease tongue weight.

Obviously on a camper that does not seem possible. I thought there was a rule of no more than 10 percent of total weight should be on the tongue for safe towing

 

10 to 15% of weight for tongue.

 

havent looked it up, but what is the max tongue weight for the 4runner? The trailers tongue weight should be pretty easy to weigh?


By the way, that is an awesome little trailer!

 

Some more thoughts, please remember I am a newb, so I would appreciate somebody checking my logic.

Are weight distribution hitches used to lighten up tongue weight on the receiver? If it is….could they be set to take too much weight, causing the OP to experience the casita jumping off the hitch when disconnecting?

If weight distribution setups are to aleviate tongue weight… are you (the OP) using one because the tongue weight is excessive for the 4runner?

If the WD hitch is to distribute weight to the other frame members, and you decide to ditch it (if it’s not necessary for tongue weight restrictions), then that wont solve your squat. That just leaves you with either getting heavier springs or manually airbags that fit inside the spring.

 

I believe it's 500#. But, when the cargo area is loaded down, it should be decreased.

@vjcg are you hauling anything heavy in the cargo area while you're towing?

 

I had a ~4000 pound pop up camper (big one) and it didn’t squat like that at all…


I had 2 young kids in the 3rd row with booster seats, 2 kids in car seats in the middle row, and my wife and I. So we were loaded down for sure.

Max tongue weight is 500#.

As others have stated you have a few things you need to check. It isn’t as easy as throwing on some suspension and then throwing a trailer on (as you can see). Here is what I would suggest.

Get the trailer weighed and find out the tongue weight. Distribute weight accordingly on your trailer to get your tongue weight in accordance with recommendations from professionals (ie: 10-15% of the trailer). There should be a stamp on the trailer that as the stock tongue weight.

Weight distribution hitches are helpful and it is what I had on my 4Runner. It gives it a more smooth ride for sure but come at a premium. Make sure you have a brake controller if the trailers has brakes.

You also need to look at your aftermarket spring rates and stiffness. You could also look at airbags for when you are towing to help the squat. But I would not be driving anywhere until you get that figured out because you are dangering you, your passengers, others, and your nice 4Runner. Not worth it.

Hope this helps. But you do have some work ahead of you to figure things out.

 

The tongue is way too heavy. The axle is near the back of the trailer and it has a very long tongue so all the weight is forward. Also, I think the weight distribution hitch is contributing to the problem in this case. Remember that they work in both directions, i.e. when the tow vehicle is heavier than the trailer the hitch is trying to move some of the car's weight to the trailer. That's exacerbating the problem. I agree with GrantA that you need to know the actual weight of the trailer and how it is distributed. You may have to have that axle relocated.

 

As been mentioned, you have a heavy tongue weight. That actually shouldn’t be that big of a deal with proper suspension and the fact those trailers are so light weight. First thing, is to get airbags installed for sure. But take a look at the spring weight you are running and possibly upgrade. I myself would do both in this instance. The WD hitch is doing nothing for you with the trailer and is completely unnecessary with the total weight.

As for the trailer, replace the jack with something that has better reach. This is obviously a safety issue and you should be protecting your fingers and toes. This information brought to you from a farm boy that has been towing for 35+ years.

 

The trailer is 2800# dry. If it's loaded heavy, it could be putting a lot of weight on the hitch. Remember, the 4Runner is pretty light duty compared to a full size truck.

Springs or airbags will help with the sagging, but a properly set up WD hitch should help to transfer some weight back to the front tires.

I do agree with the rest of your post.

 

I understand your point, but unless she is packing a pallet of gold in there, the loaded weight should not be excessive. I go to pick up my 4R on Friday but I know what these rigs can tow. An example of me towing with a Tacoma. I have a 20’ high deck flat bed. Don’t know the weight, but it’s heavy. I towed my tractor with mower, post hole digger, front bucket, 6’ box blade, commercial size air compressor, roll away tool box and other oddities. Towed over the Cascade mountains over to SE Oregon. Sure, it was lacking power, but I could hold 65. I’m really confident that I had wayyyy more tongue weight than she does. The difference was I had the rear end setup to be able to tow. Luckily I did since my Cummins was in the shop.

 

The 4Runner has a shorter wheelbase than the Tacoma, and is only rated for 500# tongue weight. A 2800# trailer should have a 280-420# dry tongue weight.

Just because you're not sagging doesn't mean you're safe. The bigger issue is that excess weight behind the rear axle is taking weight off of the front axle. That's why WD hitches exist. It has nothing to do with sag.

 

I know all about tongue weight. It’s basic physics really. The more download force on the rear you have, the more upward lift you will have with the front end. Now, her question said nothing about how the steering felt or if the front end felt bouncy. If that was the case, then by all means use a WD hitch.

You are correct that no sag means it is safe. There is a lot of variables to consider in that situation. But I can tell you that too much sag surely can be because the suspension is already damn near bottomed out. You hit too big of a bump at highway speed and just might end up in the median or worse. Unless she comes back and says the front end feels light then I’ll stand behind my experience and opinion. And as a CDL driver hauling logs out of the mountains I value safety, yours and mine.

 

Like I said, I agreed with everything else you said.

I would certainly upgrade springs or add airbags if I were towing that much weight. Obviously, the OP is experiencing an excessive amount of sag.

I was just saying that the WD hitch is still a good idea. I think it just needs adjustment. It seems like there is some technique to setting them up properly.

We still don't know if the OP is carrying a lot of weight in the cargo area, which could be making the sag worse.

 

A few things (many have been mentioned) . . .

• T4R springs are soft. I was getting 1" or more of sag with only 175# of tongue weight. That's the price of a cushy ride.
• Either get stiffer springs or airbags. I use airbags and tow frequently. Sag and stability issues totally gone.
• I believe the owner manual states clearly not to use WD hitch. If you look at how the hitch is attached to the frame you can understand why. Not enough fore-aft length where the hitch attaches to the frame making it a poor setup for use as a lever.
• Get a scale and check your tongue weight. Get it to around 10% of total packed weight. Achieve this by packing the trailer differently or using different drop ball hitch. Higher ball hitch = less tongue weight. Lower ball hitch = more tongue weight. Moving an inch or two in either direction might get you into good range.
• Don't know what to make of your statement that hitch is too high for the trailer. Do you not have a jack on the trailer for hooking up and detaching?

Jason

 

I understand you logic here, but I can't find anything about that in the manual. I did find this, though:

●If the gross trailer weight is over 2000 lb. (907 kg), a sway control device
with sufficient capacity is required.

I realize that "sway control" doesn't mean a WD hitch, but it doesn't say anything about WD hitches specifically.

Aside from all of that, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that it looks like the OP's trailer is too tongue heavy. Or, the 4runner might have too much loaded in the cargo area, adding sag.

Yes, the OEM springs are soft. But, this 4Runner is lifted. I am guessing the lift springs are standard load when extra capacity springs would have been a better choice. Or, airbags would be ideal.

But, the trailer's tongue weight should be determined regardless. If it's too heavy, springs or airbags will only cure the sagging.

 

Firestone Airbags placed inside the rear springs would be my recommendation. I towed a Lund fishing boat 986 miles home with my 4Runner. Mid trip, the rear end of my 4Runner was really sagging.

If I ever do a long trip like that again, I'll invest in them. For normal 5 mile trips - house to the lake and back, they aren't needed.

 

There is no reason why your 4R - trailer combination should not work. A 2800 lb trailer is well within the towing capabilities of the 4R. If the receiver on your 4R is too high relative to the Casita hitch height (due to your lift), then you need a receiver with greater drop so that the Casita is level when hitched. If the sag on your 4R is too much when the Casita is hitched up, then you should consider a weight distribution hitch or possibly air shocks to level your 4R when hitched. I have a 2020 4R that I use to tow both a 19' Escape trailer (which is a bit heavier than your Casita) and a 15' Escape trailer. I use a conventional spring bar weight distribution hitch for my 19' and an Anderson hitch with the 15'. Both work fine to help level the 4R when it is hitched and I have had no issues towing either trailer. I don't understand the issue you describe with the trailer jumping off your truck when unhitching? Can you describe in greater detail exactly what you are doing that causes this to happen? I have never had an issue remotely like that with my trailers.

 

Your 4Runner has been modified (3" Lift) So, many factory specs will not apply! I've owned a 17' Casita for 5 years and have been towing it with a stock 2021 4Runner SR5 for the past year. I have no issue and it tows like a dream. I use a 3" drop ball mount. The Casita is level and the 4Runner squats just an inch at the rear tires, if I remember right.

If you want the 4Runner to perform properly & safely, it should not be modified in such an extreme way. If it is put back to factory specifications, you'll have no problem. What is the 3" lift doing for you, other than cause problems?

 

https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3075

 

Couple things: Weight adds up quickly when packing an RV. Double check your load.
Also, unless you just got a junk one, there is no reason that load-leveling hitch is not solving your problem. They are a pain in the ass the get set up correctly, but once so, it *will distribute the load and level your rig. Get some help setting up that hitch.