Stock KDSS equipped vs non KDSS with good aftermarket shocks.......

for highway driving. Anyone know how the two would compare with respect to body lean and nose dive? Just wondering if it's worth it to wait for a KDSS equipped 4R and leave it stock or just get one without and put on Bilstein 6112/5100?

 

Test drive one.

 

That would be great if the dealership here had any on the lot to test.

 

You got the wrong impression of KDSS if you think its just shock and springs.

Both Non and with will nose dive stock. Both with aftermarket will get better. Try hitting some turns with KDSS.

 

Agreed I love the KDSS on my '22 ORP. Think of KDSS as a compromise to try and deliver the best of 2 worlds both off road and street which it does. Nose dive not so much but body lean at higher speed curves and turns it does due to the presence of and added stiffness of the KDSS front sway bar as compared to the base suspension while still delivering some extra wheel articulation for off roading. Depends on what you want most out of your Runner.

 

Thanks for the info. The choices are limited and the wait is pretty long right now. Been waiting since early Oct so if a KDSS or non KDSS ORP shows up I'll probably jump on either but will definitely have a 6112/5100 combo installed right away especially if it's non KDSS.

 

Why wouldn't you put suspension on the KDSS version right away either?

 

I drive probably 30% dirt roads and the rest highways so since a KDSS version handles highway driving pretty well, I figure it's no rush getting it done. But then again if I get my hands on one, my thinking will most likely change. LOL

 

Just to add to what everyone is saying; KDSS will not affect nose dive. It will improve body roll in curves, and allow greater suspension articulation in off camber situations.

One thing to consider is your long term plans for the 4Runner. KDSS has some real advantages, but if your plans include long travel or a sway bar delete, it's a waste.

Are you planning major modifications? Or, keeping it mostly stock?

 

I want to keep it mostly stock. I'll probably set the 6112 at the 0.8 or 1.2" setting to reduce the rake a bit and leave the back alone. Plan to switch tires ASAP to Coopers with the 3 Peaks symbol either stock size or 255/75-17. I don't really care for the stock OR wheels but I'm from the old drag race school that likes to suck tires in but the choices of wheels with stock offset is basically nonexistent.

I keep reading about the excessive lean and nose dive of the 4R and just want to correct some of that. I'm hoping that if I can't find one with KDSS in the next several months, a regular ORP with the 6112/5100 combo will help road handling significantly. I don't plan on any extreme stuff like rock crawling but have a 5-8 mile round trip on potholed dirt roads to get to pavement and go on some horrible forest service roads sometimes. So in your opinion would a non KDSS 4R with the shock upgrades do reasonably well in my case? Thanks!

 

I think you'll feel a significant change in ride quality with the shock upgrade. I have the exact suspension you're looking at. The ride is firm, but generally not harsh. You feel every little bump you drive over, but it seems to Glide right over bigger and nastier bumps like train tracks.

I consider kdss to be a very good system for a person who wants to keep their 4Runner basically stock but have maximum off-road capability. That said, a non kdss 4Runner is still totally badass off road. You would only notice an advantage in situations where you are really flexing the suspension.

So, I would not consider it a deal-breaker at all in your situation. I think any 4Runner with a decent shock upgrade will be more than enough to suit your needs. Honestly, the upgrades that have made the most difference in off-road capability for me have been tires and armor. If you won't be playing in the rocks much, ANY 4Runner with decent tires should be more than enough for your needs.

 

Thank you very much for the great info. I enjoyed reading the tread about your incredibly nice build. I'll try for a KDSS model but if I can't find one I guess it will be just fine. You must like bass fishing. My brother used to go to Castaic and Casitas every week during their heyday about 30 years ago and caught several huge bass. I was never that lucky and the largest one I ever got was only a 8 pounder at Lake Isabella. Thanks again!

 

A little bit, yes. I've never caught an 8 pounder, but managed a few in the 6-7# range a few years ago. Actually, it has a double meaning as I play bass as well.

 

You keep mentioning nose dive. The KDSS and non have the same shocks/springs. If the point it to get rid of the nose dive you will need to replace no matter what you get.

I still personally would wait for KDSS. If you been waiting since October I think you can wait a little bit longer. Don't get something just because and start kicking yourself later.

 

You definitely have a good point. I'm not in a rush especially after selling the '21 Tacoma I was going to trade in. I was kinda worried about the used car market dropping while I was waiting. Now it doesn't matter and I have another vehicle to drive. Another thing I want is the MTM but that option is really rare in this area for some reason. I've been watching the Toyota inventory website for this area and I've only seen one with the MTM so far and that one had KDSS but was spoken for.

 

Have you looked into ordering one? Or, having your dealer locate one?

Like @Dillusion mentioned, if it's something you really want, don't settle. It's a lot of money; get the one you want, even if you have to wait.

If possible, drive a non-KDSS and KDSS version to decide.

 

You could ask that question from this YouTuber "The Car Care Nut" too. There is a live session today. Really good place to ask any Toyota related question. I really love his content.

 

Thanks!

 

It blows me away the differences between American and Canadian options on the same model. Here in Canada I've never seen a '22 TRD Off Road that doesn't have MTM, MTS, Crawl Control, KDSS, Locking Rear Diff, Moon Roof and Remote Start. They all seem to have them.

 

I gave the local dealer a deposit. My understanding is that you can't really order one from the factory the way you want like a Ford. The Toyota dealer gets an allocation from Toyota and the dealer tries to match what's allocated to what you're looking for. The dealers pretty much have no stock on hand and whatever new cars they have on the lot are already sold. It's the chip shortage that's messing things up. The only good thing, if you can call it that, is you can get a lot for your used car since dealers need something to sell. You can actually get more for a newer used car that you bought if for. Strange times.

I'm kinda thinking of buying a set of wheels and tires while waiting. I need to get used to the idea of pushing the wheel outboard though. I was thinking of an 8.5 wide 316 Method with 0 offset. There's an 8.0 wide one that has +25 offset but I'd be worried about getting too close to the UCA. Would there be any advantage to getting an aftermarket UCA if the front is only lifted around 1 inch?

 

It's not just the difference between Canada and the US. There are definitely regional differences in the US. If I put in a zip code for the So Cal area, there are a whole bunch with MTM, not like where I'm at.

 

Yeah, Toyota is weird. I believe my dealer was offering to locate one for me, but I don't think you can get as much of a discount unless you take one that is dealer stock.

I would definitely go with the 0 offset out of those Wheels. My Black Rhinos are 17 x 8.5, 0 offset. This seems to be your safest bet for pushing the wheels out a little bit from stock without rubbing.

 

Thank you for all the great advice. Oh, do you have to use hub centric rings with your Black Rhino wheels?

 

If you don't want the KDSS lean then you'll need an additional FL combo for your front right. The reason for this is the KDSS acts as an auto leveler so the front spring perches are exactly the same on a KDSS 4R. Whereas non-KDSS utilizes an offset to account for driver and gas tank weight. If you don't account for this... you'll get THE lean.

For more rake, you can use two FR instead.

 

Bilstein has different settings for 6112's for KDSS vs non KDSS. you don't need to buy anything extra.

Edit: BTW, what in an FL combo? Or FR? I feel like I should know this.

 

I'm not a suspension expert but always read you want to upgrade springs and shocks. I have an Eibach Pro Truck Lift (4 shocks & 4 springs) on my non-premium / non-KDSS Off Road. It just about eliminated the body sway and reduced the nosedive on braking. The ride is firmer but still comfortable on and off pavement. The Eibach kit runs about $750. Figure $400 for install.

I did have both rear Eibach shocks fail on me but I'm off road weekly on rocks. Have now added taller Eibach bump stops along with replacement rear Eibach shocks.

Pretty sure this trail blew my rear shocks. There are about 4 ledges that you need momentum (bumping the vehicle) to get over. Ran it again with the taller bump stops and no issues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqa2ESS6ZF0