Vibration issues

Hello everyone.

I recently bought a 1999 4Runner with 230k on the odometer. It is in very good condition with clean carfax 2 owners. This is the runner I’ve always wanted and I’m having slight vibration issues. I got the driveshaft looked at and the tires balanced but I still feel it. Can anyone give advice on what I should do next. I really enjoy this runner and I don’t want to feel like I made a bad purchase. Thank you for your time.

 

Bad rear axle bearings? Bad, or just old and worn, maybe. Same for the front wheel bearings.

Good front end alignment is another possibility.

I'm not sure if it could be the trouble, but how about the steering stabilizer shock absorber? How about all the other shocks?

Rear brakes dragging just a little?

Just throwing possibilities I can think of. I don't really know. I am NOT a suspension guy at all.

Pat☺

 

Thank Pat! I have an appointment with a mechanic tomorrow hopefully he can pin point the problem. I know the upper and lower ball joints have been replaced the driveshaft and u joints have been replaced. Hopefully it’s something simple lol fingers crossed.

 

When my injector quit I got serious vibrations. No codes?

 

Describe the vibration.

Happens at what speeds? Worse with acceleration? No acceleration? Stops when coasting? Stops when you shift into Neutral? Feels like it's in the front/back/middle? Does it ever go away on certain roads?

 

The vibration only happens past 60-65mph. I don’t feel it under that speed and feel it more at the end of the vehicle.

 

It's probably going to be in the rims or tires. My car has always had a bit of a road vibration above 70mph (bought it new in 2002). Seems like after a brand new set of quality tires, it is really minimized (almost gone) and gets a bit worse gradually. Also seems to fade when the tires warm up. I think my 20 year old rims may not be perfect anymore either. All I get is a bit of feedback through the steering wheel.

Make sure you torque your wheels on to the correct Torque specs and that the rotors/brakes are good quality so warpage is minimized.

It's hard to know if it's abnormal without feeling it myself but it does sound minor...and you can't expect these things to ride perfectly smooth after 20 years.

Now if you really think the rear of the car is vibrating strangely. Swapping wheels from to back can help figure out if it's a whacky rim/tire or you have something else in the rear going goofy.

 

From reading the FSM, for what that's worth, the lug nut torque spec is 83 Ft/lbs.
I know the first gen was 93 Ft/LBS.

Just a quick note.
Pat☺

 

Alright Runners

So I took my 4Runner to a driveshaft specialist. I told them what was going on and before that I had the tires looked at and everything was good. The specialist told me from 96 to 05 the driveshaft tube is in two parts and what hold the two parts is a rubber garment. When the rubber garment goes out you start to feel vibration and it wears out your u joints yokes etc. They built a custom driveshaft and all new parts. I was going 70mph and felt like I was going 45mph I mean day and night. So if you are having the same problem get the driveshaft looked at.

 

Nice! Another member advocates new driveshafts too as he describes a very similar deal. I will have to consider replacing mine!

 

Negusm did you get your drive shaft replaced for the vibration?

I am chasing the vibration gremlin at highway speeds. New shocks all the way around, new different brand tires, replaced intermediate shaft in steering column, bushings on steering rack, front stabilizer bar links, normal wheel balance, road force balance, Costco balance with adapter plate, front wheel balance with the wheels on the car, had my aftermarket slotted & drilled front brake rotors replaced with new non-drilled, rear brake drums and a U-joint replaced.

I thought not much left based on searches on multiple sites but checking the drive shaft. I took it this week to a local drive shaft mechanic that was recommended to have the drive shaft balance checked. They found the drive shaft was out of round so they heated it and straightened it. They told me it is balanced but since they check on the work bench they can not tell if it is the cause of my vibration in the vehicle. They also pulled and checked the front drive shaft saying it was good. They did not road test it. It still vibrates.

I am playing whack a mole here. How does a drive shaft that has never been off road or struck become out of round if it is still good?

Does heating the drive shaft to straighten it damage the rubber that holds it together?

If the ball in the cardan joint is bad will it still pass a balance test but cause vibration?

I am thinking I need to get a Tom Wood's drive shaft to rule the drive shaft out for sure then go back to Costco and get the adapter plate balance on my Toyota factory wheels.

2001 SR5 4x4 with only 208K.

 

Since my current set of tires, it's not that noticeable. I never had more than an annoyance above 70mph. For now I think I'm chalking it up to tires and maybe warped rotors.

I will say that if the rubber in the driveshaft is bad, nothing will help it.

 

Another note: I have changed my rack with a new one from TOYOTA. The steering is much much tighter now. This might be another factor.

I have literally replaced everything up front (rack, rack bushing, outer tie rods, sway bar bushings, end links, end link bushings, rotors, upper and lower ball joints, rotors, pads, OEM struts, strut mounts, calipers rebuilt, alignment). Literally, the only wearable thing not replaced up front are the control arm bushings and wheel bearings. Both seem fine for now. Also, I use ONLY TOYOTA parts and everything is 100% factory spec.

At 20 years and 265k miles, everything is just a little bit loose everywhere and slowly but surely it's driving better and better. No one thing up front made a huge difference. (The biggest change came in the rear with new rear lower control arm bushings. No more big sways at highway speeds.)

My point is, 20 year old cars have vibrations and squeaks and rattles and you can't expect a new car. It's hard to tell over the internet if you're at the point of trying to balance an egg or not. The only way to get it perfect may be to keep going and replace things.

 

Myriad possibilities. Could be something like an episode of acceleration that was more than it could take. Shouldn't be possible, I know, but...
If the rubber grommet got old and dry, maybe it let the driveshaft sag.

Did the driveshaft shop check the u-joints on the driveshaft? Or did they pull the DS off the u-joints at both ends, and test it only?
Did they check out your u-joints and the double cardan? Have you? Just grab the DS right near the u-joints, and try to move it both up and down, AND left-right? Don't be afraid. You can really honk on it with your hands without damaging it. If there's any movement, bad u-joint.
Have you been keeping the u-joints well lubed?
Is the slip joint, that portion of the DS with the grommet in it, lubed, but NOT over lubed? Easy to check. Pull the grease-zert off, and bounce the truck a bit. Any amount of overfull will squirt out of the hole. Put the zert back on, and test-drive it.
Remember, the double cardan is just a series of stacked u-joints. In fact, the word U-joint is synonymous with "cardan joint". Cardan is the name of the guy that invented it, is all. Is your double cardan well lubed?

May I ask, what "ball" you mean? Like I said above, it's just a series of stacked u-joints. Nothing special about it. It has the same needle bearings that all the others have. If it moves, it has the needle bearings, and needs to be properly lubed. Unlike the slip joint(s), you can't "over lube" the u-joints, or double cardan. Any grease more than is necessary that you pump in will simply ooze out of the caps of the t-shaped piece that the two halves of the u-joint ride on. You can hear it, a kind of sizzling sound as you pump the handle of your grease gun, and see the excess grease coming out. It gets more difficult to pump the grease gun handle as the bearings all fill with new grease. When you no longer hear the sizzling/bubbling of the grease, and see nice, clean, new grease coming out, that's the right amount. Wipe off the excess that came out, and gtg.
Again, make sure you grab the DS with both hands and give it a good shake. Any movement? Bad u-joint. Replace it, or have it replaced.

Depends on where they heated it, and how much. For example, if they heated the end away from the slip joint, and ran water over the slip joint as they did, it's probably in good shape.

A Toyota OEM shaft would be your best choice, IMHO. Look how long the original lasted, after all

Hope something in my babbling is of some help. I tend to get a bit verbose. Sorry about that.

Pat☺

 

Negusm, yea it is an old truck but I hope I am running out of things to try. Every time I get a different wheel balance the speed it happens at moves. It was best after the Costco adapter plate wheel balance but still there.


Phantom Tweak, the drive shaft shop checked the u-joints and said they were all fine. They pulled the drive shafts (front and back) from the truck. Since they charged me for putting loctite on the screws I think the unbolted the drive shaft at the flanges pulled the u-joints with the drive shafts.

A previous trip to the dealer service department for the vibrations found a bad u-joint they replaced. On the trip to the dealer they told me there was something wrong with part of the drive shaft but the OEM parts or whole drive shaft assembly is no longer available from Toyota so they would have to go to the junk yard for parts. They were not specific on what part of the drive shaft they thought was bad. I was very frustrated with them after them working on it for two days, removing my drilled and slotted front brake rotors and replacing with new because they said they could hear the pad touch the rotor and the drilled ones could not be turned (my O'Reilly auto parts store turned them. New rotors made no difference.

I have greased the joints and sliding shaft.

I saw a post somewhere a guy had some some damage to the centering ball in the double cardan joint. This is not from that post but shows the position of the ball by the yellow angle in the double cardan.





Photos from
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/double-cardan-joint.273119/#post-6745013

I try to do my own repairs when I can so thing are done correctly. I have taken this to several normally good repair places and still have issues. I was being lazy and splurging some by taking it to repairs shops since I do not have a garage or lift, it is dark under my shade tree when I get home and I have not done drive shaft repair before. I guess it is time for me to learn how to swap a drive shaft. Based on my searches and reading I think a new replacement would be better than trying to rebuild old since it sounds like finding the correct part numbers can be hard.

 

So I ran my rig out on 485 here up to 80mph or so. Up to 70 she's smooth then I have a bit of front end vibration (nothing major, I get some feedback through the steering wheel) at 70mph-80mph and then it smooths out above 80mph. On some stretches of new pavement, 70-75mph seemed to be smooth. So I think my old rims and maybe tires are just not perfect or perfectly balanced and maybe just some resonance in the suspension.

Regardless, I feel this is totally normal. It's a truck and was designed before 70MPH roads were a thing. People say "highway speeds" and I wonder if they don't realize that definition has change substantially since the end of the last century. Highway speeds used to be 55-65.

 

Well, I'll be!
Learn something new every day, if I'm not REALLY careful. I didn't know about the ball. Now, I do. Thanks!

The u-joints, including the DC, on my 87 4Runner are still in great shape. I lube them up well twice a year, spring and fall. Doesn't take long, and it's paid off well for me over the years

The pickup doesn't have a DC, just the center carrier bearing. Just replaced that recently. Not bad, a 30+ year old carrier, finally failed. Not difficult to replace, just need to ensure it's pointed the right way. It matters which way is front. You can tell by the way it fits into the mount on the truck.

Have fun!
Pat☺