2023 4Runner: Take it with a grain of salt.

First of all, I see mostly chicks driving 5th gen 4Runners around here.

Second, the Ford Bronco has a towing capacity of 3500... Wait, what?? A vehicle based off of the Ranger, with a towing capacity of 7,000 lbs, and is larger than the Ranger, can't tow as much as my smaller and less powerful 4Runner??

What a joke.

I've been watching all sorts of videos by owners of the new Bronco and it seems Ford has really screwed the pooch on the release. People are paying $58k and $62k for vehicles that have felt glued to the top as a headliner, which is already starting to peel off, and rattles and whistles on the highway.

I think Toyota could make a vehicle that competes with the Wrangler and Bronco. I used to think that tweaking the 4Runner would be the best and easiest route, and it would. But, the things that attract buyers to the Bronco and Wrangler are things that the 4Runner doesn't have. Mainly, a removable roof and doors, and a retro appearance. The FJ Cruiser was a weak attempt because even though it was more reliable, retro-styled, and very capable off-road, it didn't have the 4-door option or the removable top and doors.

Watched a video of a soccer mom that just bought a new Bronco. Said she had to have it because it was so aggressive looking and she could remove the top and doors. Does she? No. Because she is too busy driving her kids around and running errands and lives in California where leaving your car with the top and doors off means it will get stolen or your stuff inside of it will get stolen. But, she has the option if she wants to.

So, Toyota needs to bring back the FJ Cruiser, but do a major redesign. Base it off of the 4Runner, but make the suspension articulate as much as possible, give it at least 300hp, offer 2dr and 4dr options, along with an option for 35" tires, and make it a retro design based on the FJ-40, and they will sell everyone they make.

 

As for the "best guess" drawings of the next gen 4Runner, does anyone remember the pictures that were being circulated as being "likely" designs of the new Bronco?

 

I strongly disagree about bringing back the FJ Cruiser.


I would much rather see them offer a more off-road focused 4runner personally. The FJ has no history, while the 4runner has been around for almost 40 years. And, the original 4runner had a removable top, a solid front axle and 2 doors. So, rather than releasing an extra model that competes directly with the 4runner, maybe a trim level that's closer to the original would be a good option.

 

Would like to see a more off road focused 4Runner also. But as far as history goes, the FJ has far more history than the 4Runner. I think Toyota should have both in their lineup.

 

No, it doesn't. You're thinking of the FJ40 Landcruiser.

The FJ Cruiser was only around for a few years and was a weak attempt at a tribute to one of the most legendary off-road vehicles ever built.

If Toyota made the next generation 4Runner closer to the original, there would be no need for the FJ Cruiser. A shortened, 2 door version of the 4Runner would be a much better option.

 

The FJ Cruiser was axed because they weren't selling. Plain and simple.

They sold 50,000 the first 2 years, then sales dropped in half the 3rd year, then half of that the 4th year. They were only selling roughly 15,000 a year for the last 6 years of sales.

Why would Toyota bring it back? People didn't want it.

FJ Cruiser Sales US
2006 56,225
2007 55,170
2008 28,688
2009 11,941
2010 14,959
2011 13,541
2012 13,656
2013 13,131
2014 14,718

 

To add.....

I'd be willing to bet Ford Bronco 2-door sales follow a similar path. Decent sales the first couple of years and then they fall off.

People will instead gravitate towards the 4-door because of the passenger and cargo space benefits.

 

i agree. we will se large number of sales the first couple of years due to the hype and people wanting the newest toy on the block, but totally expect sales to drop especially with the 2 door due to practicality as mentioned

 

I think we are confused about some things...

The FJ Cruiser is this...



It is a modern retro vehicle based on the FJ40 Landcruiser which was made from 1960 to 1984. It looks like this...



The FJ Cruiser didn't survive because although it successfully evoked the image of the FJ40, it did not offer the removable top of the Jeep Wrangler, or the increased utility of the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4-dr.

I agree that the original 4Runner of the 80's, with it's solid axles, 2-dr configuration, and removable hardtop would be an awesome vehicle to modernize and apply the retro treatment to; I think it is too far gone down the path of accommodation for soccer moms to be groundbreaking again. The obvious choice, from a marketing and production standpoint, is to bring back the FJ Cruiser and make it a convertible, more off-road capable, and available in 4-doors.

Yes, the old 4Runners were sexy, but have evolved too much to try to make them as cool again...

 

I couldn't disagree more.

Why bring back a vehicle that nobody wanted, when you could just make the next generation 4Runner more similar to the original.

Also, I'm pretty sure Toyota knows a bit more about marketing than a handful of FJ Cruiser fanatics on an internet forum.

As far as the 4runner being too far down the soccer mom vehicle road, I disagree there as well. Plenty of people appreciate having a vehicle that's off-road capable and still comfortable for daily use.

And, the Landcruiser had gone a similar path but keeps the off-road market happy with the Prado. Which, ironically, many of the members here pine for while seeming to be completely unaware that the 4runner literally is the same platform.

 

I remember those Bronco renderings. All look sweet to me except the gray one. They look like a modern OJ 90s Bronco.

 

Because nobody wanted it because it wasn't a convertible and 4 drs. Offer it in those configurations and it will sell.

As far as Toyota knowing more about the market than those of us that are the market. Well...

 

OR... They could make the next gen 4runner more off-road capable and possibly offer a special edition with a removable top. This would be much smarter than another half assed attempt at an FJ40 tribute.

They can make the 4Runner more off-road oriented because they don't need it for the "soccer mom" market because the Highlander is basically the same size and towing capacity.

It does not make sense to offer the 4runner AND the FJ Cruiser. The logical choice is to keep the model that has been around longer and succeeded. The next generation 4Runner could be what the FJ Cruiser attempted to be.

You only know what YOU want. A handful of people wanting the return of the FJ does not nearly make it worth Toyota's effort and investment to do so.

Meanwhile, like I mentioned, they could make the 4runner a bit more off-road capable while still being a decent daily driver and sell them like hotcakes. People who can't live without a removable top and 37's can always buy a Wrangler. Or, they could offer a removable top option on some sort of special edition or trim package.

 

@MountainMan I do agree that the FJ Cruiser could have been more successful if it hadn't been such a weak effort.

I would love to see Toyota offer a truly badass 4×4 again. I guess I just prefer to see it as a variant of the 4Runner rather than an entirely different vehicle.

If they could engineer the next 4Runner to allow 35" tires to fit without hacking the shit out of it, and some other cool feature, I think it would satisfy the people who want the FJ back.

I just don't see Toyota adding the FJ back into the lineup. If they do, I hope they make it closer to an original FJ40 rather than a goofy looking 4runner with a slightly shorter wheelbase.

 

I had a 2007 FJC. My 2013 Trail is better in just about every way except it doesn’t have an MT.

 

The engineer speculation design would be fine for me personally in a Trd Pro as long as the interior gets tasteful upgrades as well to make it feel like it’s a 2023 vehicle. I don’t need it to look like a spaceship inside like Acura’s do, but just something a bit more upscale and at least organized a bit better rather than an all thrown together with multiple themes of blacks, carbon fibers, and fake aluminums like now.

 

It was cool but poorly executed. Visibility sucked. Getting into the back sucked, from both the side and the back. It felt bloated and small at the same time. A daily driver it wasn’t.

When you stood back and looked at it you’d think “wow, that’s really cool”, but it just didn’t work.

At the same time, I’d love to have one sitting in my garage as a novelty.