Would I have gotten stuck?

2021 Venture. Unfortunately, I haven’t gotten off road to speak of yet. I’ve discovered there don’t seem to be any trails inside of 2-3+ hrs from where I live. But, I was able to find a bit of a trail through the woods the other day. The trail got soft quickly. I made it a short way down the muddy trail before I chickened out and turned back after seeing standing water ahead. I was alone at near dark and I'm still running OEM Bridgestone Dueler HTs and those really don't look like they have the lug design to grab in mud.

By the look of it, I’d sunk about 3 inches or so before I turned back. Did I panic too soon? Would I have gotten stuck with the OEM (highway) tires?

 

Sometimes a bit of caution is a good thing especially if you are alone. I changed out my stock tires within 2 weeks of ownership.

 

OP - You probably did the right thing. You were alone, losing light, and had no recovery gear.

I personally am not a huge fan of the OEM tires, even though I've got ~18K on mine. I just can't justify paying to replace something that is not in NEED of replacement. When it comes time to replace my tires I'll be looking at numerous options. Same story with a lift/suspension. It ain't broke, yet. They aren't great, but they'll work.

My personal anecdote regarding the capability of these vehicles, even on the OEM Duellers, was last fall, I was checking out a few "trails" in southern North Carolina, and had gone through a few standing puddles with little fanfare, until I saw one that looked just like all the others and went in. It felt like I dropped 3 feet on the passenger side and a good foot on the drivers side. The passenger side center of the frame was now sitting on a mound of mud. 4LO forward and backwards did nothing. So I started pressing all the buttons to activate stuff. It took a few minutes, but she pulled herself out of the mud hole, on OEM Duellers, at normal psi. I was shitting bricks for a few minutes there because I was with my 5 year old daughter, we were alone in the woods with no phone service, and I had no recovery gear at all. Fortunately, there was a group of people camping about a mile back with some built rigs that I probably could have asked to pull me out. Once I got free, I turned around and headed home. Lesson learned, limits encountered, humility gained.

I also just did a 2 week camping trip in the Black Hills National Forest and Bighorn National Forest, and these tires did just fine out there. Of course, I wasn't searching out terribly challenging routes, but I did find some.

 

Go back again in daylight with a recovery plan and report back with more pics. I put my money on not getting stuck.

 

To be fair there’s no way to answer this. Even with all terrains or mud tires there’s still a possibility of getting stuck you just never really know. You mentioned the trail got soft and there was standing water. You don’t know how much softer it was going to get or how deep it could have gotten. Couple that with you were alone and had no way to self recover you definitely did the right thing.

 

I would of had the same trepidation had I been in the same situation and circumstances. I would have made the same call and turned around... and would return another day with a plan. I'm sure that as you (and I) get more experience and comfort level knowing the limits of our ride, it will be a blast.

 

The answer is.. Maybe.

If there's standing water on top of mud, I wouldn't be going through without recovery gear. If the mud is deeper than the distance from the ground to your axles, you're probably getting stuck no matter what tires you have. With highway tires, you can get stuck in less.

I have done a lot of solo off-roading, and mud and standing water are usually what makes me back out of a trail.

Aside from recovery gear, a set of waders is handy when exploring new places. I wade through unfamiliar holes to check depth and bottom composition.

 

You’d get stuck 60% of the time...Everytime.

 

Thanks all. I appreciate it. I’m becoming increasingly disappointed with the OEM tires—even on pavement. There’s a set of Falken Wildpeaks in my future, once I convince myself to spend the money and prematurely retire the Duelers.

 

Ah shit, run them as long as they got tread. I think you probably got an awesome vehicle as is. Knobby tires are noisy so be careful what you wish for. Are you sure your tires are causing something you don’t like about your ride? I took my AWD (Cooper street tires) through a field of 6 inches fresh snow this past winter and I never had to use the center locker. The auto torque management is just awesome on both sand and snow. There is no getting stuck unless you bury it to the axles.

 

Try and sell your tires and use that money to get new wild peaks

 

A lot of people aren't satisfied with the OEM tires. I changed mine out at 1300 miles and sold the original tires to recoup some of the money.

^^^^This!

 

Get a set of Maxtrax or knock offs. Plus a decent recovery rope. A rear hitch shackle + hitch pin is a good idea as well.

 

Yes he did do the right thing. It is impossible for anyone posting here to predicting the outcome of what might of happened had you kept going. In some situations it's possible you may not be able to turn around.

Tire type really does not have as much of a bearing on the capability of the vehicle. Driver skill and good decision making can get a stock 4Runner a lot farther than aggressive tire treads when off of the highway.

This is opposite thinking than a motorcycle where an open block knobby is the only safe choice as you only have 2 wheels and the risk of front end washing out outweighs the rider skill.

 

Of course bad choices will get you stuck no matter the equipment. But, even the best driver isn't getting through much mud on highway tires.

 

Mud is a game changer for sure. Even if he had good mud tires I still am of the opinion the OP did the right thing by turning around. personally would not chance taking my daily driver through mud and water crossings. Too many things can happen that will kill the vehicle. Tires being the least of your worries

Here is an example of what happens when things go sideways:

My best friend from Oklahoma had been wheeling since we were teens and owned a bunch of Jeeps through the years. He found out quickly that the JK series Jeeps short out once the water level gets past the bottom of dashboard. Apparently the new JL series have sealed electronics that have remedied that issue. The tires did their job until the Jeep died.

He was able to recover it with help from his nephew (in a newer JL Jeep) but it ended up being totaled due to the electronics dying and even worse damage winching it it through the mud and up the river bank. I'm showing this picture to others to show what can happen even with a very experienced driver behind the wheel.

FWIW, winching another vehicle that has no power to the wheels to help is a very difficult task. So yes to the OP getting some better tires and yes to still turning around and not chancing it.

Sadly my best friend in the whole world passed away last year just a few months after this happened. Just before he died he was ready to pull the trigger on a new Rubicon JL......

 

BTW, before anyone comes on here and talks about the "bad choices" my friend made, this river in Oklahoma is a very popular place for taking high clearance vehicles. It is extremely rare for one to get stuck that is properly prepped with a good driver behind the wheel. It was just unfortunate that the JK series of Jeeps are not setup with sealed electronics for deep water like most of the other models.

 

I think you did the right thing, as others have said. As for the Bridgestones, I subscribe to the thinking of some on here that, if serious off-roading isn't in your near future, run some tread off the Bridgestones first. I haven't off-roaded my 2019 YET, but these tires have been great on pavement. Very smooth all the way past 70k miles so far. I'll be looking into something with a little more tread come winter, but nothing real aggressive. I do hope to get off the pavement someday soon.

 

I had a best friend ever, too. Many years ago he died in an ATV rollover at age 36. Maybe the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with, so I get it. Only person I've ever 4-wheeled with, too. And he almost always insisted I bring the wife and kids. Just a fun guy.

 

Thank you for the condolences and understanding Sir. It was pretty darn sad.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

That mud looks pretty nasty! That's the kind of thing I'm looking out for when I put on the waders. I'll go through water with a solid bottom, but not so much with a sticky mud bottom.

 

Hi James, Thank you. I have never been to that river. I'm honestly not sure where it's at. Somewhere not far from Oklahoma City. The way they explained it to me was it was not that muddy on the bottom where they were driving. Most of the physical damage occurred during recovery. That kind of wheeling is not my cup of tea.

 

Yeah, those deep crossings are best left to dedicated trail toys. A little mud can be fun occasionally, but the clean-up is never fun.

 

Mud can be fun, when you have other vehicles along with you who also all carry recovery gear.

I led a trail ride last Saturday where we revisited a mud hole, a few of our group had issues with, a month previously. I had my rear locker on, turned on Atrac, and used lots of momentum (punched it) to make it this through this mud hole. I was in the lead and had no issues.

The 2 vehicles following me struggled but both eventually made it.

Gus in his XJ tried to take it slow. Didn't work out so hot for him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slgzjta_wBk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYKdHeKRB1Q

Pretty sure the Excursion packed it down for everyone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzYeOiztGYM

Having built vehicles along with you, you can have more fun, knowing that we'll get you out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4XkV-j6-E

Where am I going with all of this? Find some off road groups in your area to join. Overlanders are pretty welcoming and have trail rides for all sorts of 4wd vehicles. Facebook is a good place to look for off road and overland groups in your state.

 

I'm definitely hitting you up if I make a trip down to Missouri! Looks like you guys are having fun!

It appears the Mark Twain National Forest is about 10 hours from me. That wouldn't be bad for a 3 day weekend.

 

Come on over. We have pretty good course set up now.

Here's where we meet usually:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/G...hUKEwje05fLherxAhVHoZ4KHVxoDkkQ8gEwAHoECAQQAQ

I'll be up in your area around the 20th of September. We're doing a loop through lower Michigan then hitting the UP and coming back south through Wisconsin / Iowa.

 

Are you taking a particular route? Let me know if I can help you find trails or anything.

 

My brother & sister in-law from Traverse City MI area, have the UP portion planned out and will be convoying with us. Goal is to visit as many waterfalls as possible. We were planning on just cutting South through WI quickly on the way home but I could extend it a day if there's something worth checking out.

Goal is to avoid Illinois altogether. I grew up there and try to avoid it whenever possible. Plus IL doesn't recognize my MO CCW.

 

Sounds like fun!

We have some trails, but likely nothing as interesting as what you have in MO. but, we have some beautiful areas to drive through and microbreweries/brewpubs galore. If trying to avoid IL you could cut to the west side of Wisconsin and into IA. The area along the St. Croix and Mississippi River are scenic and a great drive.

I guess it depends on where you're entering and leaving Wisconsin, and what you're interested in.