6th gen Speculation Thread

Came across some really interesting information from someone involved in the early development of cars (thank you Carmaker1). He has always maintained the 6th gen was coming later than most were expecting.

Here's the latest as of June 14 2021:

The 6th gen development is running behind schedule and it will not come out in 2022 as a 2023 model year. This is mainly due to the motor development, and more specifically the hybrid development. Previously, one of the motor options planned was a standard hybrid. They have changed their minds and now want a 'modified' hybrid. It's not known exactly how this hybrid will be 'modified.' Perhaps the driver would be able to select different modes of driving like ICE mode, Hybrid mode, or EV mode?? That is complete speculation on my part but nevertheless, this 'special' hybrid development is the cause of the delay.

Another motor option for the 6th gen will be the T24A-FTS 2.4L Turbo which is the new motor being used in the Lexus NX. The engine/trans combo will be optimized for high torque at low rpms.

The reason a 6th gen has been taking so long in the first place is because the 4Runner was supposed to be discontinued after the 2016 model year. When the 5th gen came out in 2010, sales were so bad the first couple of years that they planned to axe it....... so no new model development started. Sales picked up dramatically and they decided to keep the ball rolling. After they hastily got the 2017's out, they then decided to start development of a 6th gen. This sort of new model development usually takes Toyota 5-7 years.

That brings us to the time frame of the 6th gen. 6 years of development would put us at a 2022 release. 8 years would put us at a 2024 release. Since 6th gen development is running behind, it's looking like a 2024 release at the earliest. That's not the model year, but the year it will be released.

Unfortunately, it sounds like they will not be built exclusively at the Tahara plant anymore. The info is not clear on whether some will come out of Tahara or not, but as of right now first production is scheduled at the Guanajuato Plant. This could change.

Take this with a grain of salt, but his info has been reliable in the past.

Here is an article that corroborates the delay in production.......although this is about the Prado, the Prado and the 4Runner are closely connected.

motoring.com.au/new-toyota-prado-delayed-until-2024-129026/

Edit 1: May 2022 update.....the 2023 4Runner 40th Anniversary Edition has been announced and it's still a 5th gen.

Edit 2: Nov 2022 update.....it looks like 6th gen production WILL NOT start in Jan 2024, but rather will begin on 9/2/2024. This means the 6th gen will hit US shores in late Sept or early Oct 2024 as a 2025 Model Year.

Edit 3: Oct 2023 update.....the 2024 4Runner has officially been announced by Toyota and it's still a 5th gen.

 

All of it is pointing to making the ancient 5th Gen much more valuable like what happened with the Tacoma’s. Hopefully they knock it out of the park with the new 4runner redesign, but time will tell.

 

Wow, awesome info nimby (understanding it's not confirmed). If true, it might make the 5th gen even more valuable. Get 'em while you can folks! I know I'll be wary as heck about a hybrid / turbo 4 combo. Sure, Toyota is good at it. But a big part of my reason for buying a 4Runner was the old-school bulletproof drivetrain. If they switch to a hybrid / turbo 4 combo, the 4Runner will no longer have this big differentiator from other vehicles.

 

if true, it makes me even more happy to have made the purchase for the 5th gen this past weekend instead of waiting it out for the 6th gen

 

I'm in for a hybrid. 25mpg for a 4R would be a perfect vehicle for me. My Pro will be paid for by then so it will be hard to take on another car payment.

 

I kinda hoped for the twin turbo 3.5L V6 that’s going in the Tundy and Landcruiser to power the 6th Gen T4R with 415hp....

Sigh. Guess I’ll be holding on to my ‘19 and supercharge it.....

 

Very plausible. In the new NX, that engine makes 275 horsepower and 317 pound-feet of torque. That probably puts it in the sweet spot (in Toyota's mind) for a 4Runner.

 

Don't think it was ever realistic to expect Toyota to put the Land Cruiser's TT V6 into the 4Runner. They need to have a big difference in engine capability to differentiate the models and justify the big variation in price. What did seem possible (less so after nimby's newsflash) is that we'd get a de-tuned version of this engine. Or a version with only one turbo. Or with no turbo at all. That's a pretty common strategy among automakers. You build one basic engine but tune it or turbo it to be more powerful in the more expensive models.

If Toyota is committed to hybridizing the 4Runner, well, sigh. I'm sure Toyota will do it well and a lot of people will like it. But it kinda defeats a main purpose of the vehicle for me.

 

NO that won't happen but you will see it in the Tundra and Sequoia if they redo the Sequoia. I do believe we will see a V6 hybrid and turbo and maybe the 4 cyl turbo in the base model.

 

Yes, one would expect to see the LC's TTV6, or a version of it, in both the Sequoia and Tundra. That makes perfect sense for several reasons. And for these same reasons it won't happen on the 4Runner.

 

I see a 4 popper turdo only line for future Runners. It will make all it's power down low, run out of air up top and never consistently the rated power until the planets align because the ECU sees something it doesn't like.

 

https://www.torquenews.com/6626/toy...e-art-multimedia-system-it-coming-2022-tundra

 

Oh great, more simple controls now moved to a touchscreen. When the hell will auto manufacturers realize that this tech is making things harder instead of easier?! It's just asinine to make you wade through onscreen menus to do something you used to be able to do in a fraction of a second with a simple, physical button or dial.

Even if the thing you want to do is on the main touchscreen at all times, you can't locate it by feel, the way you can with a physical button. You have to take your eyes off the road to make sure you're touching the right part of the screen. It's so freakin stupid! Ugh!!!!

 

One of the biggest Tundra drawbacks inside the cabin, according to many owners, is the lack of state-of-the-art multimedia technology.​

In the age of CarPlay and Android Auto, I don't get this complaint.

My 2020 works great. Turn on CarPlay immediately upon start-up. Done.

Totally state-of-the-art. Regularly updated by Apple. Highly user-configurable by choosing which apps to run. What more could you want?

 

Agreed. I enjoy buttons and small knobs, but we've been moving towards an all touchscreen console for vehicles since the first Ipod which was the catalyst for this entire movement.

Can we thank Elon for the rapid move towards all touchscreen console design? Tesla was the first widespread consumer vehicle to go all touchscreen. I think it gave other auto manufacturers a big clue as to what they were missing.

But I think there are too many upsides to an all touchscreen console. Easier to design. Cleaner looking interiors. Less moving parts. Less parts required to build, more app possibilities, etc.

 

Nope. Not when you're driving. Primary controls should be physical. Secondary controls can be buried in a touch-screen. Touch-screen can also be redundant for primary controls for people who prefer them.

But it will always be easier -- and less distracting -- to turn a knob for volume or fan speed, rather than fiddling with a touch screen. Touch screens necessarily require taking your eyes off the road. Knobs don't.

If touch screens are better than physical controls, why not a touch screen steering wheel?

 

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...ystem-to-deliver-best-in-car-user-experience/

Same information from original source. The new system will be very sleek, clean, nice, etc. to match competitors, but as with any infotainment technology, it will become unsupported and outdated within a few years. It's just an excuse to market standard tech as luxury and state-of-the art to boost sales at higher prices.

Particularly unsure this pattern of new technology becoming obsolete within a few years will pair well with a vehicle that many people intend on keeping for 10 to 15 years. But, I suppose that is how Toyota intends on getting people to feel inclined to purchase a new model every few years.

The Entune system in the 4Runners now isn't the greatest, and it certainly isn't "flashy or exciting" (as Doug DeMuro would say), but there is a refreshing element of simplicity that adds an element of timelessness to the 4Runner. It's not good, but it started out not good, and will always be outdated, and that's just the reality a 4Runner owner must accept, unless replaced with an aftermarket option. The 2020+ updated systems with CarPlay and the larger screen is a truly nice blend of old, timeless tech with modern features for driver comfort - that is, until Apple software outdates the ability for Entune to support CarPlay.

 

Well, regardless, I think all vehicles will be pushing towards touchscreen layouts in the future. Look at all the concept cars at the auto shows. Almost all of them have simplified center console layouts, less buttons, less knobs, less switches. But auto manufacturers have a long way to go to iron out the kinks. They will probably take decades before they figure out how to do it right.

I think there is a balance to be found between retaining some buttons and knobs, along with a large touchscreen layout.

 

EXACTLY right. IDK when the Tundra got CarPlay, but one reason I got a 2020 4Runner instead of a 2019 was the fact that it came stock with a decent big screen that ran CarPlay. CarPlay is an excellent system, very powerful but simple and intuitive to use -- typical of Apple. I'd be very happy to have an infotainment system that was only CarPlay and a radio (with physical buttons please!) Etune is a total cluster lame-ass system and totally superfluous when you have CarPlay.

That said, I don't mind having car based navigation as a backup to maps on the phone. I've been in a couple situations where it continued to work when the phone didn't. I'm not sure, but I gather that the car's system can work on GPS alone (and gets a good GPS signal from the sharkfin), while the phones are designed to rely on both GPS and a cellular connection.

 

More screens = more distractions = more accidents = more vehicle sales

 

If the multimedia unit goes out, so do all your controls for the vehicle. Not a fan.

 

I think r32's point is that moving a lot of controls to a touchscreen is attractive to manufacturers, even if they understand that it's less user friendly for their customers. It's definitely cheaper to put controls on a touchscreen than to manufacture a bunch of different knobs, each with their own places to install on the dash and their own wiring etc. Plus, the computerized touchscreen enables more "exciting features" that the car makers can add at almost no cost and market to all the sheep-people out there for a nice markup on the vehicle sale price. In short, it's bad for consumers but good for the manufacturers.

 

Service Connect – Drivers receive personalized maintenance updates, vehicle health reports and maintenance reminders to help them maintain their vehicle through various subscriptions available on the smartphone App.​

Funny story: I sold my Jeep over a year ago, but I still get its "Vehicle Health Reports" via email every quarter. The new owner is running the tire pressures too low, and it needs an oil change. Tsk tsk.

 

Classic.

 

To clarify one point…….I don’t think the 6th gen will only be offered as a hybrid.

My interpretation of the info was that it will have the option of a I4 turbo or an I4 hybrid (with a bit more control than the usual hybrid by being able to specify electric use). Again…… my interpretation and I could be wrong.

 

Agreed. 275 horsepower and 317 pound-feet of torque is likely our future with the turbo 2.4L. That'll be close enough to Jeep/Ford specs for Toyota.

Interestingly, the 2022 Nissan Frontier is getting a 310hp/281 lb/ft NA 3.8L. I think they would do well with this engine in a 3rd Gen Xterra if they wanted to re-enter the rugged SUV market. Not everybody is enamored with turbocharging.

 

I've had three cars with turbos, two of which had excellent performance. Nice linear power delivery, virtually no lag. (The third was a POS). But I'd take NA over turbo any day, even if it means less power. I just don't like the sound or feel of turbo motors. I've had a lot of cars and the only engine that I really, really miss is the NA straight six in my 2009 BMW. Gawd was that thing sweeet.

 

Wow, if the 2024 release date is correct we are in Jeep XJ territory for production length. I hope Toyota makes this wait worth it because I find it a bit preposterous that Toyota has updated other vehicles twice in the same timespan.

You have to view this progression of engine and EV from Toyota's perspective. They probably don't like being forced to develop more complicated engines with turbos and electric motors to use on their vehicles because the added complication means that even if their standards are kept up more parts can and will fail.

They wouldn't risk their reputation of reliability if they didn't have to, but the increasing emissions standards for better or worse force their hand. If you were born in the last 25 years you just have to suck it, this is the direction ICE are heading because we don't want miles of coast line submerged into the ocean. The days of giant V8 that get 12 MPG and aspirated V6 are coming to a close.

I also hate how much new vehicles rely on touch screens. Its not futuristic, its just dumb.

 

This reminds me, not sure if folks have seen the bit of hype recently about fully synthetic gasoline. Porsche has been working on it, among others. I don't really buy it to be honest, finding it hard to believe it can be cost effective, but they say it's on par with EVs in terms of net total environmental impact. And it works with existing ICE vehicles, no modifications required.

I personally am looking forward to the day when EVs get a lot better (range, charging etc.) I LOVE the idea of being able to use one's car to power one's house in an emergency, and the potential to use solar / wind etc. to get some charging without reliance on the grid.

But it would be awesome if we could also extend the life of ICE vehicles with much less environmental concern, simply by switching to a new form of gas.