Under powered

Toyota could put a bigger engine and better transmission in and charge more if you want it and if you want a slower truck you pay less.

Every other manufacturer does this.

 

Nothing to do with a bigger engine. Everything to do with throttle response.

 

I'll go with the stock pedal. I'm not known as the "Slough" for nothing.

 

Nah. Unless it’s an ECU flash, a pedal commander is just snake oil.

 

Yes the power is lacking, but it's relative to what you are accustomed to. A gas pedal is not a one one size fits all ordeal. Its a great vehicle but it's no Durango hellcat, but it'll certainly last a lot longer.

 

You said put a giant engine and trans in. I said it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with throttle response. No mention of the pedal commander.

I’ll stand by my statement. The 4Runner feels under powered because it has poor throttle response. The engine has plenty of power.

 

I’d agree. Put it in S3 and see if anyone feels like you lack power.

 

3rd gens are substantially smaller and lighter vehicles. Difference of approximately 1000 pounds.

 

x10 on the throttle mapping. I didn't read all the posts but these use a drive by wire throttle. No physical connection from pedal to throttle body. My 04 Taco feels way more responsive than the 21 4R. And my Taco is anemic. But I have a throttle cable and thus a 1:1 throttle response time.

So with the drive by wire, you can program a ratio of pedal input to throttle opening so push your pedal down half way and you may get 30% throttle. On top of that, you can program a curve to that so if it takes you .5 seconds to push the pedal to 50% it may take .75 for it to open to that 30%. So there is a lot of latency which we describe as shitty pedal feel or responsiveness. Like a new pair of shoes you have to get used to it, or get something like the Commander. Also the 4R is heavier so the power to weight is in the mix.

 

Not true, unless people say it's increasing HP which it isn't.

It is however modifying/adjusting the input signal from the pedal before it goes to the throttle body. Very much like retuning an engines ECU with regard to timing and fuel mapping (how much, how fast, and when) for actual HP. This simply modifies the signal IN LINE as opposed to, re-flashing the actual ECU, which Toyota locks (I'm pretty sure). Change the input, change the output, and you get a real world change.

Toyota programmed the throttle response for a reason, but I agree it is very numb and takes a lot of getting used to even compared to my 04' Taco. Any 1st gen or 3.4 guy will tell you they have all the power of a I4 with the milage of a V8. But hey, the throttle response is there...

 

I apologize if somewhere this question has been answered, but I see a lot of talk about the Pedal Commander and little or none about the Sprint Booster. Is it because Pedal Commander is so much better than Sprint Booster. From what I see online Sprint Booster may have some good things going for it. I have tried neither one.

 

I have a Sprint Booster and really like it. The controller is smaller than the PC and easy to stash or mount. Like this with Velcro on a blank switch.
I’ve read in forums that the SB seems to be more reliable than the PC.
There’s a guy in the other forum that sells the SB with a five year warranty.

Go to his site or phone him (see his signature in this post):

 

The neat thing about the 4runner mapping is how seamless it is. It’s almost like it’s double mapped— you can punch it and it predicts very well what YOU are going to want it to do. Conversely, if you wanna save on gas, back off on rate of acceleration and I swear it knows it and it’ll keep you in a taller gear longer while still allowing you to accelerate.

Hard to explain, but honestly, I think the mapping is very well done in the 4runner. Very well balanced for all scenarios, unlike the newer Tacoma, which leans heavy toward mpg, even when you don’t want it.

 

I don’t know if you guys have ever seen throttle mapping tables. They’re pretty amazing. Honestly, works of art in and of themselves. The ecu is monitoring so many different variables and predicting other variables.

I’m by no means an expert. I know zero about it. But I have a cursory understanding of what’s involved at the most basic level. I don’t know if they simply got it wrong on the 3rd gen Tacoma or what. But there have been several updates since 2016. Leads me to believe they’re continually working on it. But there’s obviously constraints that they have to work within. I guess it’s difficult to stay within their published mpg specs and still please everybody. It’s been continually frustrating for many, as evidenced on Tacoma World.

I just hope they don’t do something similar with the T4R.

 

The simplest way to explain how it works is to say it is a device that sits between the throttle and ECU. When you press the throttle and it sends a “1” to the pedal commander, the pc compares the settings you’ve pre programs and sends a “3”. Of you've disabled the pc, it sends a “1”. Of course it is more complicated than that but you get the idea, the pedal commander manipulates the data received from the throttle and applies it to the ECU with the correction you’ve selected.

 

I, for one, don't think of the Pedal Commander as "snake oil" - it does what it's advertised to do and that is to increase throttle response. I had to spend twice as much $ on my F150 (5.0) to achieve a similar response and that was flashing the ECU which was an 8 minute ordeal every time I wanted a little extra kick. I elected not to keep it in high performance mode all the time as it required high octane fuel, that's one of the nice things about the PC - you can achieve instant throttle response improvements and not have to worry about using the expensive juice. There are plenty of "snake oil" mods out there for the 4Runner but the Pedal Commander is not in that category.

 

PC also doesn’t change the “engine tune”. Throttle mapping isn’t changed. It’s still running on the factory mapping.

I’m not suggesting this as a positive or negative. Just information.

 

You say the "PC" doesn't. Does the "S.B."?
Pure ignorance,
Ryan.

 

No. None of those throttle boosters can. All they can do is alter the signal from the pedal to the ECU.

 

You know, I’ve been thinking about this. While the SB/PC don’t change the ecu/throttle mapping… I’m thinking they probably do affect where the map leads you, so to speak. Or rather, how the engine responds to the altered throttle input.

There are all sorts of things being monitored by the ecu. So I suppose there’s a lot more going on here than simply amplifying the signal (as far as how the engine responds to the signal).

Honestly, I’m pretty ignorant about this stuff too. People talk of these devices as being “signal amplifiers”. And I get that. But it’s a lot more involved than something like a volume knob. You’re not just “turning up the volume”. Once you sort of see how a throttle mapping table works, you see how amplifying that signal leads to a cascade of other things to take place.

Take this with a grain of salt, as I’m not an expert.

 

As previously said, these devices are merely signal amplifiers. This has been discussed extensively on this and other forums.

If you want to understand more about the electrical theory read the white paper (Sprint Booster A technical white paper by Dick Bipes September 2007) pdf at this link:

 

There’s some interesting info contained in the patent applications for the Sprint Booster.
Check out the descriptions and the schematics.