Lifting / Modifying 2020+ 4Runners with Toyota Safety Sense

Just posting this thread to add one more item to consider when you lift your 4Runner with Toyota Safety Sense.

Or thinking to move the radar sensor for an aftermarket bumper.

According to this YouTuber Toyota will not re-calibrate Toyota Safety sense when you modify the vehicle from its original state. The Live Q&A talk he had Sunday stated very specifically because of liability Toyota will not re-calibrate when the vehicle is modified from its original state.

This pic is from one of his videos explaining Toyota Safety sense.

Hope this thread helps anyone who is concerned about this matter.

Why am I starting this thread?
I’m slowly searching on to lifting my new TRD Pro so I can do some off-roading or some trail fun. (I think some of the members know that I had a lifted trail ready TRD ORP which the dealer crashed and now with a stock TRD PRO which I have to start from zero getting it ready for the trails.)
Unlike my other 4Runners I will take lot of time researching on lifts with this TSS. I don’t want to mess with it and it apply emergency brakes on a highway for a bridge or something. Yes I’m not a fan of this tech but now I have to live with it.



Update -

I was thinking even if you lift your 2020+ and did not re-calibrate and you had an incident where you had to change the windshield? Then will the windshield company / Toyota dealer would accept your lifted vehicle to re-calibrate? Re-calibration is a must for windshield replacement right?

 

https://youtu.be/Pbxil9ccJL8

https://youtu.be/2yxWLP7jeI8

https://youtu.be/WXWY_ZHgAQI

 

I watched the first two vids (at 1.5 playback speed ). 2nd vid at 16:10 says when recalibrating the camera, after say a windscreen replacement, the tech would utilize preset dimensions that are determined by vehicle model. Then use measured out targets. So not sure that process would allow for an front/rear altered from oem.

Bit of a pain frankly...

 

Yeah the YouTube live talk was interesting too, and somewhat discouraging to lift a 4runner with TSS. To my brain/ eyes it's a big difference of view after lift from what I see driving in city traffic and how I feel driving at highway speeds. I don't know what's the impact on these dumb sensors. I mean not only the height difference, most lift kits change the level/ angle which may impact a lot on decision making of these systems (I guess). Not sure, something to research before I make a mess.

(Almost had trouble with my old lifted 4runner where Toyota didn't know how to work with aftermarket uca and other parts for a collision repair. I bet it would be worse with this TSS when modified)

 

All of this ^^^^ is why I bought a 2019 because I knew I was going to lift it and cut the front end up for a plate bumper. Sometimes all the new fangled safety features are more of a hindrance than a help especially when they malfunction and cause an unanticipated emergency brake. https://toyotatalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/SSC-K0B.pdf

 

For the 2020 model 4Runners dealerships were allowed to disable TSS completely if the customer signed a waiver. Toyota has put a stop to that this year. However, they are allowing the dealerships to re-calibrate for lift kits and larger tires. The dealership I bought mine from has been doing it for a few months now that Toyota has come out with a written set of instructions on how to do it. It's a rural dealership and that may be the deciding factor. I am not a fan of TSS. I see it as a crutch for lazy or unobservant drivers. Had I know they were being added I would have bought a 2019 when they came out instead of waiting.

 

According to this YouTuber you cannot recalibrate. from his Q&A at 48:20 on the timeline. Highly suggest listen to the part on this at 48:20.






Update -
Link for the video with time line (48:20)- https://youtu.be/9ufLlQ6Hauc?t=2900

 

I've seen the videos. I like his channel and he obviously knows what he is talking about. I've also spoken with the district Toyota rep before I bought my 2021 about disabling the TSS and he said the only option they have now is to recalibrate for lifts when necessary, which the dealership here has supposedly done. Either he hasn't gotten the memo or Toyota is lying to me (surprise). I'm not talking about relocating the radar either. Radar stays in the stock location.

 

True, I'd be interested to see what the paperwork say when someone did a recalibration after lift. I assume it should clearly state that the recalibration is done to accommodate the lift.
Also wonder what numbers they would put to the system as lifts with adjustable height (The ones with threaded shock body) don't have a specific height right?

 

I have the Eibach springs which are the perfect amount of lift IMO for the Pro. It didnt change anything that I can tell. Then again I turned off all the safety "features" I could.

 

Good to read some folks have lifted w/o problems. If I buy a '21 T4R I'll lift it but keep most of the rake, so I'm interested in this subject.

I'm thinking they'll be a bit of wiggle room in the system parameters but guess I should be prepared for it to be out of spec. Fortunately I don't think any of these systems are mission critical, as it were. Never had em before anyway but wouldn't mind trying adaptive cruise. I'm thinking out of spec recalibration would have to be left to non dealer shops - if you could trust it.

Our other potential vehicle purchase is a Forester (yes, I know ). Some of the upper trims have major nanny action. Who knows if they can even operate while nanny disabled or out of spec.

I'm thinking this kind of autonomy and complexity is the future 'cause the public wants/needs it (?). So maybe I'd better get of the pot and buy before the time comes when vehicle mods are "not permitted".

 

I drove a Crosstrek and would rather be in debt than drive one of those. A 2019 4 Runner with CarPlay and LED headlights would have been perfect because of no TSS. Instead I’ve got a 2020 Pro and adding the ‘21 LED headlights. With the small lift and 285’s it’s the perfect vehicle for me.

 

Yah, 2" more headroom and the 4R would be closer to perfect for me but alas, it's not just for me and this "might" be a commuter car for DW. Maybe not the better vehicle for that but certainly a better all rounder imo. And one we could take in the bush w/o worry.

The other big thing for me is reliability, longevity and less complexity than other modern vehicles. That's where this nanny stuff is worth paying attention to. Plus I'm old school. Wife doesn't like potential problems either, so that's a plus. -Did I hear someone say CVT ?? LOL

 

I tested 2021 Subaru Ascent. Me personally didn't like it.
(Some pics from a video I did that I didn't published yet.)

 

Meanwhile in Tacoma world there seem to be some sort of "Factory Lift" that is compatible with TSS. Again not sure about the validity of those videos as I could not find this option when I try to configure a Tacoma from Toyota site.

 

No planned lift for this 4 Runner but I searched out a 2019 when I figured out I could set the cruise control and it would run into the car in front of me and change lanes without using the blinker while driving with my knee. Between the 2019 4 Runner and my 2016 Tundra (also the last year of no TSS) I might have the last vehicles I'll ever own sitting in my driveway.

 

I've seen this guy in a few videos now and IMO I wouldn't trust him with fixing a power wheel.

I lifted my 2020, as have friends of mine. My ironman lift when first installed was almost 4" of lift (3" advertised). I've had no issues at all, neither have my friends. This "problem" is blown way of of proportion. My only complaint about tss is everything else about it. It's sensitive, constantly turning itself off, to include the cruise control in moderate rain.

 

I did the Eibach springs on my 2020 Trd Pro and everything has been working fine for both the type of Off Road I do and towing, I do not really need to have 4 inches of lift because I am not rock crawling.

 

I’m not sure lifting is the real issue, I think it’s when people start trying to move the sensor somewhere other than where it’s supposed to be, I’ve seen companies making bumpers that work with the sensor in its current location. I’ve seen prototypes of companies trying to move it somewhere else like into the upper grill or elsewhere, that’s when Toyota is going to stop helping you, the software is written to look for something specific and when you change the variable it’s no wonder it’s not going to work.

 

I saw one member relocate the radar sensor which is a big no no for me personally.

I'm thinking a lift not only effect the height but the angles. I think change of these angle might effect its decisions. Like not applying brakes in enough time in an emergency situation or not taking correct decisions on radar cruise control. Also with the change of angles I hope it doesn't apply emergency brakes on a parking garage or may be a bridge. I mean I'm just thinking what if....

I'm pretty sure if something goes wrong with an accident the owner of the lifted vehicle would he held full responsibility.

Again, I'm not sharing this info to discourage anyone. I'm sharing my personal concerns before lifting my 2021.

 

A small lift like Eibach springs or Westcott lift won't change anything. And to me its the perfect amount of lift and is exactly what should the Pro should have from the factory.

 

Except, at least on 4RUNNER'S the sensor does not have active braking. It just alerts you that you SHOULD brake. It's just a red flash and a high pitch alarm. It doesn't steer or brake for you. I think those systems are on the prius and camry.

 

The 4Runner will automatically apply brakes.

@kmeeg , IMO you should not be worried about changing the angle. Have you ever put a couple hundred pounds of weight in the rear of a stock, OE, factory spec 4Runner? The rear sags so much that the angles of the sensors are now highly "modified," all stock and directly from Toyota. So the angle of the sensors, i.e. the pitch of the vehicle, surely does not throw off the TSS.

The only thing that lifting really does to TSS calibration is raise both sensors (together, happily) directly upward. This could have some very small effect but I really don't think a lot of solid TSS AI decision making is based upon this factor because it's also dynamic and also varies greatly depending on your surroundings. Some cars in front of you are low to the ground, some high. Some bridges low, some high. So they cannot put hard targets, with respect to height, in the algorithm. Further, what happens when you hit a dip in the road, or crest a hill? The weight of the vehicle and it's momentum will cause the vehicle to momentarily sag, or raise, as much as a few inches. Does this result in TSS going crazy each time? No.

IMO, the only current, real concern when it comes to TSS and modifying is keeping the sensors in place relative to each other, because they work together and make their decisions based upon cross-data.

 

Very valid points @koukimonster .

Since I had a very bad experience with the Toyota dealership after the accident of my lifted TRD ORP I will take it slow and play safe this time. Don't want to hear more BS excuses from Toyota. Every time I go to the garage I stare at the 285/70R17s and think how good looking they are vs the small 265s on my 2021.

 

This exactly, lift away and don't worry about it. I too had maybe 3.75" of lift in the front before winch and bumper install with no issues. Level or raked does not really seem to matter, an isolated issue is not something to change your plans over.

 

Totally feel you brother. My biggest complaint about my 4Runner is Toyota. I don't feel like I have a friend/partner in Toyota, rather a rival. It's like they don't want me to touch my 4Runner or take it off-road, lol. I wish it was more like a team environment, in which they wanted to make me as the customer happy, and work with me toward my goals (which include their machine, so why aren't they happy about it!?). I feel like Toyota North America's success has gone to their head.

I took my 4Runner to the dealer after my lift, for my alignment. I wanted them to do it mostly because of the TSS stuff. Just in case there was an issue, I felt that the 4Runner was best in their hands. And since my lift didn't include adjustable UCA's, I thought surely this would be no problem. ..and it really wasn't, except for their attitude. In the end, they managed to get the alignment as good as possible, so I'm a happy customer in this particular case. However, from the very beginning they basically attacked me, saying, essentially "These targets you're aiming for aren't possible, and we aren't even going to pay attention to them. We can and will only do what the computer tells us to do." They were basically setting me up for disappointment from the get go, without even trying first. Why? I guess just to ensure they could get it over with and make some profit, without having to potentially put in any extra effort beyond the norm. Sad. It's all a numbers game now.

 

2020 sr5 here with 2.5 inch lift and 295/70r17 all around. No issues

 

No issues here either, with 3" lift on mine. I spoke to my dealership Service Manager before doing it, and he said that "Anything over 3" is stepping into 'unknown' territory... The safety sense may or may not work at that point." Since having my lift, i've had zero issues.

Cheers,

Sean

 

It seems like you are really concerned about all of this. I would therefore recommend you not lift your 4Runner.

Mine has an Ironman ProCell lift and TSS all works perfectly with it. No issues.