2021 TRD PRO Lift/Level

Thanks for all the insight. Guess I will truly be the guinea pig for these and I’ll let the forum know what o think once I’ve tested them out. From what Westcott claims their solution shouldn’t impair shock travel or performance. Call it a leap of faith I suppose..

 

You understood correctly based on the video below. He explains explicitly how his setup DOES NOT change shock travel.

I'd say you did your homework.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgDsi4RSQKQ

.

 

Thanks Moon. I spoke with the 4x4 garage that’ll help me as I build this out and they agreed it is a good alternative for my situation to utilize the fox shocks until I decide if I’m going to do full suspension swap or buy new model 4Runner in a few years. From what I’ve gathered, spacer lifts have a bad rep primarily from hardcore off road enthusiasts but reality is that they can be extremely effective and cost efficient. For me, these seem perfect to get me started and further evaluate how I want to approach this long term. I’ll be having them installed shortly after it arrives along with 33s and will provide updates along the way.

 

The thing that I don't like about Westcott is that they're, well IMO a *tad* bit shady almost. I don't like how they want us to just trust them, and thus they don't even tell the customer exactly what they're getting. "It's a lift kit, period. Don't worry about it." They don't want to admit it's a spacer lift, even though it is. Now, I'm not hating on spacer lifts, necessarily. They can be useful, and fine, but it's important to understand how modifications affect the vehicle... so I feel that the customer should understand what they are getting. Yeah, lots of customers don't care, or simply cannot understand lol... I digress...

I am not sure exactly what the video linked above is supposed to reference per Westcott, but I see that he talks about their pre-load collars in the video. I agree that a pre-load collar isn't a *bad* thing. Technically, it isn't the *best* way to lift a truck, but as long as too large a collar isn't used, it's a fine method IMO, which of course allows you to keep the same shock. In fact, using a pre-load collar is exactly how the TRD Pro comes from the factory... though stock, the pre-load amount (height of collar) is very small. Also, the ever-so-popular Bilstein 6112 kit uses various height pre-load collars, in practicality, to get it's various adjustable heights. As he said in the video, it's just the same thing as lifting a truck by spinning up adjustable coilovers. The thing is, coilovers do start to diminish in performance once you crank them way up, and I think that's why a lot of good setups such as, for example, KINGS, come with a set height out of the box that they recommend (please correct me if I am wrong there re. KINGS).

Anyway, while that video is good and all, it only covers one part of their TRD Pro lift kit. If you look back, I already said that, IMO, using their pre-load lift collar *by itself* up front is the best way to lift while keeping the stock FOX shocks. However, that won't give you the full lift that the Westcott kit provides. Since they know that one should only add so much "pre-load" before performance goes to trash, they then add more lift via traditional lift spacers, which DO lower the entire shock assembly (not great).. just like he talks about in the video...

Still, even typical "top-hat" spacers can be OK, as long as you know what you're getting into. Just be aware of the issues the guy talks about in the video regarding bump-stops and bottoming out, etc. My opinion is that top hat spacers should be kept to a minimum so that UCA to spring contact does not happen, and bump-stop performance remains. Of course, changing bump-stops is an option, as well as UCA change. Again, this is why it's important to know what you're getting. It also depends on what you do with the truck. A top-hat spacer lift might just be the best solution for the mall-crawler that wants to sit high up, but never goes off-road. You get to keep your plush stock spring rate, the mod is inexpensive, and as long as you never flex or bottom out.. it'll probably give you no issues.

Since Westcott doesn't say, I don't know what size top-hat spacers they provide. I am betting it's 1/2" which would net an additonal 1" lift... eh, that's pushing it, IMO. If you want, you certainly have the option... you can go with something smaller up top. 1" from the collar, and 1/2" from a 1/4" top hat spacer would be much more reasonable, and better, IMO. To each his own (as long as it's safe).

Finally, a pre-load spacer will absolutely affect shock travel. A top-hat spacers is what *does not* affect internal shock travel, but as we've already discussed, it has other disadvantages because it moves the entire assembly and thus area in which it travels with respect to the vehicle overall. A pre-load collar doesn't take away shock travel, but it moves where the truck naturally rests in the stroke, and it moves the area in which the shock piston is typically stroking. This matters less in a traditional, "single zone" shock. However, the FOX shocks from the TRD Pro are internal bypass. They have three zones, one large regular zone in the middle, plus a stiffer zone toward each end. If you pre-load the shock so much that the truck / piston is now normally sitting way up high in the shock stroke, you are now moving around in that stiffer zone all the time, whereas the shock was designed to hit that stiffer zone only under extreme rebound. As long as the pre-load spacer isn't too large, and you don't get too far off of the designed stroke area, it should be OK. This is where all the technical info and conjecture comes into play. FOX nor Toyota will provide us the schematics.

Again, the truck will fit 33's stock.. and EASILY with just the pre-load collar a.k.a 1" lift a.k.a 2" lift on a non-Pro 4Runner.

Cheers

BTW, be weary of YouTube, guys. And this isn't directed at you, Moon, just something I wanna say out loud. I've been a big fan of YouTube since it took off about 10+ years ago. Unfortunately, it's changing a lot. It's so easy to get your video on there now, and even monetize it well due to sheeple flocking to YouTube, that there is a lot of misinformation floating around. Like anything, just be sure to check multiple sources. I've seen some blatantly false info passed as truth on more than one occasion, and on videos with A LOT of views. It seems like people are more willing to believe what they hear in a video versus what they read on forums, Facebook, reddit.. as if making a video means you have more authority on a subject. Some people just have a lot of time on their hands, and wanna be internet famous.

I hope you guys know that I am not super-judging your choices, etc. I come off as harsh maybe but I simply enjoy learning and engaging in meaningful conversation and research with my peers. My personality can be rough, apologies if so. I may not agree with what everyone does, who does lol? But I try to respect that others want different things. As long as it's safe and I don't have to worry about your truck failing on the road and thus hurting my family (which sadly does take place due to ill-advised mods), we're all good.

 

FYI......whomever 'Y' may be?

Keep finding these little clips and learn something new with each one. That's a good thing. Isn't it?

FOX TECHNOLOGY INTERNAL BYPASS DEFINED
"TRD Pro 4Runner Front shocks have 7 bypass zones (4 compression, 3 rebound); *Rear shocks have 11 bypass zones (7 compression, 4 rebound) and 2-inch piggyback reservoirs plus a unique TRD roost shield that offers additional protection for the inverted shock design in the rear."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRzgZQK37_Y

 

Again, I appreciate all the insight as this is a learning experience for me. I did reach out to Westcott directly and they replied to my inquiries standing behind their claims. All said, I realize it’s still a leap of faith on my part. My garage I’ll be using had stated much of what your all concerns were as well.

For me personally it seems worth a try and if for any reason I feel it’s inadequate then I’ll do the proper full suspension lift. At that point I’ll already have the tires and UACs anyway. And at the very least, my test can be true real world experience since no one seems to have tried this exact product. My guess is, it’ll end up somewhere in between the Westcott claims and the worst case concerns. Again, appreciate the insight and support. Thanks

 

First thing's first.. I appreciate that Westcott has even bothered to make these videos. That, in and by itself, makes me appreciate the company, and so I want to like their product. Again, I am not trying to hate on Westcott in particular here, or especially the TRD Pro FOX suspension one bit.

But there is a glaring issue with his video. The spring isn't there.

A big issue with top-hat spacers comes into play when/if the spring *fully* compresses and hits *itself* BEFORE the bump stop contacts. Without the spring there, all compressed up, how can we tell if that will happen? Sure, I suppose sometimes the shock bottoming out could be an issue, where it could blow out the bottom of the shock. So it's good to see that at least that wouldn't happen with the Westcott spacers. But I'm pretty sure that more people get spring contact failure than internal shock contact failure. In fact, many shocks have internal bump stops in place to keep that from happening. Of course, an internal shock bump stop may not be strong enough to save the shock's lower mount if extreme stress happens (from over-sized spacers and hard driving).

I'm trying to wrap my head around that bypass zone count. I don't see how the bypass zones could be different in number for compression versus rebound. This sounds to me like marketing jargon, but I'll hold judgement until I can learn more. Either way, I don't doubt that they're great shocks. I'd be all over them if I didn't want a lift. It's one thing to have a TRD Pro and want to lift it a bit. It's another to go buy the FOX kit and add it to a vehicle, then throw these spacers on for a lift. In that case, there are better options.

I don't think there is anything *wrong* with Westcott's product, and again, it's a fine way to lift the TRD Pro as long as you aren't going very hard. If I had a TRD Pro, I'm sure that I too would want to see what I can get out of it, personally, before ditching the suspension (IF I didn't want to do anything hard).

 

When I had one of my many conversations with EiBach I also questioned the Multiple zone thing and what I got out of it without going into great details was there are 3 "hard" zones - holes of certain sizes and spacing in the shock innertube wall and those were the ones I had the most concern about, and 3 so called flow controls openings in the Piston and 1 oil return bypass at the top of the shock however we were only talking about the 2019 - 2020 shocks.

 

Well, after much more research and speaking further with my local mechanic I opted to just go for the full upgrade. I’ll be selling the fox suspension bits as well as stock UCAs, stock nitto terra grapplers, and any other components coming off as the icon stage 3 lift goes on. Oh.. and a Westcott spacer kit (assuming the missing parts from the shipment get here).

 

Define your version of *very hard*

 

^ I mean, that's tough, haha. In all honesty, I'm no expert, just a.. very attentive.. guy, starting to get into this stuff. While I don't have a lot of experience yet in the off-road world, I have A LOT in the car motorsports and modifying world. So one thing I definitely don't have going for me here, is a lot of experience. There is nothing that can replace being out there on the trails 100 times with groups of people, and what you could learn from all that watching. So my feelings are more based upon what I read as well as what I've personally experienced so far after about 10 decent outings. Right off the bat on my first trip out, I almost put the side of my brand new 4Runner into a giant pole in a very muddy area. It was extremely dicey, completely sneaked up on me, and took a GMC 1500, a Jeep, and 10 by-standers lmao, to get me out. If you do go kinda hard out there, you learn quickly, because there are so many things that can go wrong... and if you're new to it, they are things you would never have even thought of.

My definition of hard has to do with how steep inclines are, how rocky the terrain, how deep and thick the mud, and most importantly, how fast you go. You can get out there and explore, and even go on some of the "hard trails" that are very popular in CO, etc. (from what I've seen), quite easily frankly, as long as you go around the big stuff, avoid the exciting "off trails," and go slow. You still get to see the same stuff as everyone else. It's beautiful and great. The stock 4Runner can handle this. And so can spacers.

But it all changes if you try to go up that big formation of huge rocks that goes up the hill. And since it's dirt, and steep AF, you gotta gun it till you get there, then stick with it and gun it to the top. That's hard. Because you've committed.. and you don't know what you're getting into. So one big bounce and then back down on a hard rock and BAM.. if you don't have some super solid stuff up front, I could see a shock mount breaking. If you've ever watched off-road or rock crawling videos, you'll know what I'm talking about... those rigs bounce around until they find traction. Another example would be just plain bombing it down a road that you don't know like the back of your hand. One hole is all it takes. Or hauling ass into a giant puddle.. even IF you've *checked it* .. you never really know what could be down there.

If you go slow, and are comfortable with that, and don't ever do any large rock climbing or descending, don't want to jump the truck, do extreme mudding, etc... then I don't see small or even mild top-hat spacers being an issue. Mild being 1/2" which I believe is what Westcott uses. Now, 1" top-hat spacers for a ~2" lift? I wouldn't drive off a curb on those. I say that in jest.. but yeah, I really don't think huge spacers belong off-road at all. Because.. just why?

I'll also say this. Personally, since I just have a Venture with basic suspension, I *required* an upgrade when I changed suspension. Not just a lift. A lift alone was poser to me. I wanted to feel like the truck could DO more than it could before. So spacers were never an option for me. In my eyes, spacers only weaken a suspension, even if only slightly. Sure, they do provide ground clearance, but at the expense of reliability. Sometimes that's worth it, sometimes it's not. I think it's worth it (some) if you have a TRD Pro already with some really great shocks. I don't think it's worth it on a stock 4Runner. Reliability is why I decided to steer away from Bilstein 5160's.. too many bad stories on the 'net.. I don't want to "upgrade" suspension and then have it fail in the bush whereas my stock suspension probably would have been fine. That's high-schooler modding, right there.

The TRD Pro suspension is awesome because the larger bodies and external reservoirs, as well as internal bypass design, say GO FAST! So I wouldn't want to compromise that ability at all. That's why I said I would be fine with the collar spacers, but I wouldn't personally install the top-hat spacers. I'd rather go faster and feel more comfortable doing it. Once I started getting out there more, I realized that there are definitely sections of forest road.. fairly easy stuff (but big stuff can definitely jump up on you out of nowhere), that you just want to "get through" so you can get to camp before dark, get to the next area, whatever... so I quickly felt the desire to go faster. When I'm on a day trip, I couldn't care less. But when you've got a big multi-stop, multi-night trip planned, and things get off schedule, sometimes it's nice to have a little "extra" to give her.

 

Appreciate all the commentary and I do understand. At the end of the day I decided to bite the bullet and just do what I wanted from the get go instead of being overly frugal. I too am new to off-roading but am all too familiar with my mentality to push limits. Hence, I wanted better performance out of the gate not just for the performance but to also help protect the truck and myself when mistakes are made. Having the icon stage 3 suspension lift kit (which replaces the afterthought now of the westcott spacers I have), larger tires, and the c4 lo pro w/winch and light should all help me achieve the initial build that I feel will help me do what I want but also be more capable for that inevitable time when I want to try something that is a bit more extreme. I've driven less than 2,000 miles in the past 2 years as it's entirely work from home at this point. So this is going to be more purpose built for adventure days/weeks. I also have the S&B CAI on hand to install (as 2 friends have indicated it improved their MPG by 5MPG and 7MPG respectively while offering a slight performance increase as well). It's my nature to be a bit excessive when starting anything I set my mind to. Then again, I always find myself pushing the limits even then. This is a big investment into the uknown for me but I fully anticipate it being a wonderful hobby and hopefully lifestyle change as summer approaches and frequency can increase. I still have plans later down the road to change the roof rack and figure out how I want to swap the rear bumper set up. And time will tell how the CanvasBack rear covers do against my dogs... etc.. etc... While some will think I am a complete idiot (I question myself sometimes as well), I'm giving it my best shot and hope to find it a worthwhile investment leading to new adventures, new friends, and a better understanding by my kiddos about what it means to be in the outdoors. We are part way there with all the fishing, bicycling, and camping we've done the last few years but this should be a whole new level of fun. Looking forward to the day I have the 4runner and it's ready to go. Now I just have to plan out those adventures and find the places in my area that will suit us as we learn this new world of off-roading.

 

thats all any of us can strive for. With luck on our side......we'll get there

Sounds like the kiddos have a caring Dad, too. Way to go!

 

My friend just did Eibach package on 2021 TRD PRO lunar rock....

 

Moon - thank you sir! I must say, new to all of this and the forum, I genuinely appreciate your demeanor. Supportive, properly inquisitive, and kind. Much like how I live even when ignorant such as with off-roading needs and lifestyle. This is how one learns, from those who take the time to care. Wish there were more of this in the world.. another lesson I try to teach my kids (and grand daughter).

 

Interested to know how it gets used and functionality/impressions of the set up.

 

We will be going on trail on April 17th. Will keep you posted

 

I think we're both fortunate to have found such a great group of guys and gals.

Let the good times roll!

 

What a great thread as I was looking at how to get the 285s on my new 21 Pro once the stock tires are spent. If a 21 Pro can handle the 285s with its 1-inch lift over other TRDs, I’m good with what I have as suspension. Counting the days till Colorado/Utah/Yellowstone. Adventure begins July.

 

Well, just a quick update as things seem to change daily. My build will no longer be inclusive of the Westcott spacers. 2 spacers and all the hardware were missing from the box and even though they said they’d get them to me ASAP I never received anything or even further communication. So, I went a bit full-on insane, I suppose.

Now it’ll be icon stage 3 full kit, icon 17”rebound (still debating black, titanium, or bronze finish), and 285/70/17 Toyo open country MT.

I’ve already sold the stock wheels and tires to recoup the majority of that cost and the fox suspension is up for sale as well.

I welcome thoughts as to which finish for the wheels as they get ordered tomorrow. Since I haven’t seen a lunar rock in person it’s tough for me because I think all 3 would look good. Everything else is already here just waiting for my 4runner to show up...

 

I just completed a 1284 mile trip with the 4Runner on the Eibach Springs for Trd Pro Fox Shocks with 632 miles of it towing a boat went from Salt lake City area to Lake Mead Area taking I-80 the 4Runner handled exceptionally well both ways without the Boat going out and with the 18 foot Boat returning to Salt lake City Area.

So on way to Lake Mead area I did a average of 21 to 23 Mpg on the return with boat in tow I did 18 to 19 Mpg with parts of the run at speed limit of 80 mph and for the most the speed limit was 75 mph except for some serious road work areas that were like 4 miles to 15 miles long at 55 mph. 4Runner? hell yeah awesome.

 

Have you read up on the Icons from others that have owned them?

Seems to be a lot of complaints about leaky shocks.

 

Seems I find mixed messages on just about everything aftermarket soooo.. I am putting my faith in the shop owner doing the work. In his opinion, Icon has been the best by far for his customers. I decided to just rely on his recommendation and trust that if there are any issues he will see they get resolved as he is 100% supportive these will be excellent for me.

Now that I’ve said that it makes me remember my minivan I just sold. Doherty garage that did that replacement engine never had a single issue with the jasper motors. That is until they put my first jasper in and it had an epic fail so they had to immediately order another one and swap it again. They not only fought jasper on it but also got me a rental fully paid for the 47 days it took to get that fiasco all squared away. In the end, the second jasper engine was a dream.... that all I can hope for, great customer service and care. Especially since I’m a the dope taking it to the brand new 4runner to begin with...

 

I hope you don't have any problems with them.

It's nice when you can rely on a place to make things right when they go wrong.

 

Were you able to do this? How did it turn out? I have a 2021 TRD Pro. I'm new to the off-road world so question: would the Westcott 2021 4Runner lift provide a suspension lift or just a body lift? I wasn't planning on changing out the FOX shocks -- it seems the westcott kits just puts spacers into the suspensions allowing me to retain the FOX shocks that I have (and thus, more ground clearance)?

 

No issues with Icons here. I am expecting to need to rebuild them when time but knew about it before I bought them.

I also only put 2k on my 4R a year so hoping it will be a bit.

 

I have a 21 PRO - would stock FOX suspension allow for the addition of 285 tires down the road? It seems spacers may not be the way to go for the 21 TRD Pro...

But I also see this: PRO-LIFT-KIT Springs (Front & Rear Springs) (eibach.com) (website says its only for 2020 TRD Pro though... would it work on the 21 TRD Pro?)

Would this allow for increased ground clearance or would it only do a body lift?


Down the road, I'm thinking of upgrading the tires to 275 and 285 without having to trim/cut the bumper/fender. Not ready to swap out the FOX shocks yet but I'd want to make the most of them and still utilize the 275/285 tires after my Nitto Terra Grapplers are done with.

Appreciate you guys answer all my newbie questions! Thanks!

 

The Westcott kit preloads the springs which in turn gives body lift. It basically leaves the FOX suspension unchanged. I recently had the kit installed on mine and am quite happy with the results. That being said, I was NOT looking to improve the ability of the FOX system, but instead, I wanted a little stiffer spring rate and some additional body clearance. It checked both of those boxes. After having it done.....would I do it again. Yes.

 

Ok, thanks for the response! I'm curious how the Eibach springs for the FOX shocks would work? I guess they have more "tension" in them causing the lift like the "preload" on the Westcott lift? Would that help to utilize the FOX shocks as opposed to pre-loading w/ Westcott kit?

 

Eibach = increased spring load rating.

To best understand how Westcott's system works - I would suggest you watch the numerous videos they have released.