Upgrade Questions/Advice/Feedback

Good Morning Fellow Enthusiasts!
I've got an essay for you today. I am upgrading my 4runner, and I would love some personal input on a few different things.
I currently have a 2015 SR5 Premium, 2WD and am upgrading to a 2017 or newer TRD Off Road Premium......Here's my questions, any input on any portion is appreciated!!

Current 2015 4Runner questions: (it was quite obvious when i bought it that it had been on a lot of adventures)
Has anyone experienced the following? I am wondering if I got a lemon, or if this is pretty standard issues among this year. I bought this CPO in 2018, and have been having consistent issues since purchase. It never should have been certified in my opinion.
-head unit issues going out during driving (ended up replacing)
-backup camera going out (ended up replacing it-wiring harness issue between the hatch where you open and close
-backseat lever disconnecting from the wire to put seat down....I can only fold down the 60 portion of my seat
-lock system glitching: my key won't consistently lock and unlock the doors. My driver door is ALWAYS unlocked, even when I manually override with the key in the door and reset everything.
-Very touchy breaks and easily loses traction while breaking on any damp pavement or downhill
-going uphill too slowly will cause it to start beeping, freak out, lock up-similar to when you lock up by going to reverse too slowly.

What I want:
2017 or newer TRD Off Road Premium
-no 3rd row
-KDSS
-sliding cargo tray (questions/opinons below on this option)

Questions:
1-Buying out of state and transferring for lower new truck cost/taxes.
I am located in California. I have read on here that quite a few people from CA have gone to Earnhardt Toyota in AZ to purchase their 4runners. I priced them new from here, and they are approximately 3k less than here in SD or LA, which makes it tempting to buy new.
-Does anyone in CA know what the total costs is to purchase a truck in AZ and transfer it over to CA? Is it DMV title transfer costs only, or is it more of a process? If I buy in AZ, should I use an AZ address (family member), or put my CA address? Is it worth the cost reduction to go through the time and cost to buy out of state?
-Is this recommended for used cars as well from this dealer?

2-Buying new V. used
-I know these have a tendency to be pushed to the limits, and am considering saving longer to buy new over used. Does anyone have any experience with this? (I've only ever purchased used or CPO) I have good credit, a nice amount down, and should qualify for any financing offers very easily. Is it worth it to take advantage of new car deals, pay the higher cost, in place of potentially getting another that has hidden small issues that could otherwise be avoided?

3-6th Gen
-Anyone know when the 6th Gen should be dropping, and if it would be better to wait to upgrade?

4-Sliding Cargo Tray
-Can anyone share pictures of this while pulled out? I would like to see what the open portion underneath looks like. Also, can you store items under the pull out tray?
-My 2015 has 3rd row seating and I lost a lot of space. How much space is lost with the cargo tray, and do you feel it's worth it?
-Does the addition of the sliding cargo tray make it so that the back is truly flush/fold flat when the backseats are down?
I camp a lot, and want to be able to throw a mattress back there and sleep. The current one that I have has such a large gap when the seats are down that it is not feasible (as well as the backseat not folding issue)

5-KDSS (This is the most important question I have)
-Has anyone compared a model with KDSS vs a model without, and is it worth it to buy? My current one is quite 'squirrely' with the breaks and handling on windy roads, especially when fully packed for camping. By the sounds of it, the KDSS would help with the stability and performance both on and off road. Is this accurate, and if I did not get this, is there anything aftermarket that is better than will produce the same results?

I think that's it. You guys rock and I'm so excited to make my 3rd 4runner purchase soon!!!

 

What sounds the most concerning is the fact that your 4Runner starts beeping going uphill. Seems like something is definitely wrong. I’m curious to find out what it is if you get it looked at by a shop.
1. When you buy a vehicle out of state, you pay any applicable taxes/fees when you register it in your state to my knowledge. I have no experience but that seems to be the way it’s done.
2. Depends. Take into consideration mileage, model year, differences in tech/features. I opted for used because I got a really good deal on mine and I didn’t want any of the TSS tech. So it’s a matter of personal preference to me at least, and if you can justify handing over more money for something new.
3. No info, maybe 2023.
4. No tray on mine.
5. KDSS should improve your cornering handling. It also should improve off-roading as in theory it will allow the sway bar to travel more than one that’s fixed in place. And if you want better off-road results than the KDSS system then no sway bar is the way to go. For on road handling, probably nothing better than KDSS that’s applicable to the 4runners.

 

Here is my feedback on your items

1. No input here
2. Buying new used may save you a few thousand, but the 4runners have high resell so you won't get that good of a deal on a 2018, 19,20 even with 20K miles they still sell for almost new. I'd just buy new at that point, your monthly payment difference on a loan for new/used probably won't be more than $80 a month
3. I talked to Toyota dealer about this, and they are back ordered, they get one or two, but still waiting for them. Toyota made a commitment to have 1 hybrid version for each of their models by 2030.
4. Sliding tray is stupid trust me. It takes up 4" + of vertical space, it doesn't slide out enough to where its going to save you the efforts of just throwing something in the back and pushing it to the back or pulling something out. It seems to just be a place where small things will get caught under the tray. Any slide out tray that is not full extension is not worth the time imo. I don't see this tray being practical at all, more of something that is in the way. Also think of this, you load your 4runner with gear and its fully packed, like you are going on a camping trip. With stuff over flowing and items stuffed around its not like you;d grab the tray and pull the entire tray with everything on it. Also the tray only comes with the TRD PRO and you'd pay way too much to add it later.
5. I wouldn't waste your time with KDSS, just more to go wrong and in the eternity of wheeling, you don't need it, it was never a thing to begin with. You'd be better just having a locker.


Also on your other points

Very touchy breaks and easily loses traction while breaking on any damp pavement or downhill <-- Mine did this as well, when breaking hard the entire vehicle seemed to get out of control. I took it in and they said everything was normal. Its probably just the higher center of gravity and that its an SUV
-going uphill too slowly will cause it to start beeping, freak out, lock up-similar to when you lock up by going to reverse too slowly. <-- My 2018 sometimes does this but I notice when you give it barely any gas on a steep hill like you are allowing the engine power at idle alone try to move it, then pressing the gas the anti-skid kicks in thinking that you are slipping. You just have to give it more gas and not ease it too much.

 

KDSS provides more than just offroad.

Considering she has a 2WD no I'm assuming major offroading is not her cup of tea. So I say yes get it.

 

Just trying to understand why someone would need/want it if they aren't doing much 4wheel/off roading. I mean is the purpose of KDSS to push the axle down to the ground if the vehicle is tilted beyond, or at least maxing out the rear shock? Driving down a dirt road to a camping spot in a 2wd doesn't seem justice enough to invest in a 4WD with KDSS, unless the behaviors have changed enough where the roads traveled are much more rocky, uneven etc..

 

Yes. If you’ve ever been on a rough trail having that extra bit of travel can make it so much easier/better. And also should improve on pavement handling when cornering. Tons of people with heavily modded KDSS equipped 4runners with tons of use and very very few failures that I’ve seen. Most due to not having good maintenance as with anything.

 

Again KDSS is much more than just off road.

I'm not going to go into the whole what it does its been posted here many of times. Is it for everyone? No.

But if you are stuck with it just being an "off road" feature then I suggest reading into it a little.

 

Dan Edmunds & why he chose KDSS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3BnLLwbScA&t=930s

 

Welcome from Wisconsin!

 

Re: CA registration for out of state

You pay Ca tax and DMV fees same as if you bought the car in Ca, except you pay the DMV directly instead of the dealer doing it for you. If you are financing, the amount is included in the financing and the dealer writes the DMV a check for the estimated tax and fees, gives it to you, and you pay the DMV with it.

You'll need a smog cert from an approved Ca shop. Make sure you ask them if they can do a new car entering the state because not every shop is certified to do that.

Most dealers within a couple hours of Ca are experienced with Ca sales.

I would not register it in Az. First, its just a douchey thing to do - it's unfair to everyone else who does the right thing. You think anyone likes paying taxes or Ca DMV fees? Second, it's illegal. Since your DL is most likely Ca it wouldn't be too hard to put together what you did, and it's a vehicle code violation under CVC 4000a1, and your truck is impound eligible under CVC 22651o.

 

Thanks for the input!
As for your last note, I generally am going up an approximate 45 deg hill at minimum 20 mph when this happens. I regularly get in trouble for 'speeding', as the posted limit in my complex is 10mph, but at that speed I slip. It's annoying. Since I'm trading in, I will not waste the time or money to get it looked at. It seems to me my current ride has a handful of weird computer issues going on.

 

Thanks for the input! I was asking as I live close to the border, and it would potentially be an option if it truly saves any money. If I were to do this (most likely not, since it seems to be not worth the hassle), I would absolutely do it the correct way.
I was not looking to do anything illegal, just simply asking a question to gain knowledge about the correct way and see if it is worth it, since I have been quoted 3k less (43K VS 46K) on a new rig from a dealer in AZ (many on here have used them according to old posts) an hour further than I would normally go, that actually has inventory available for what I am looking for-which is scarce locally. The information you've provided is exactly what I was looking for and I thank you.

If I may offer one piece of advice, please do not jump to conclusions regarding people. That was a pretty quick jump from advice to 'douchy' and negative comments based on an inaccurate assumption of my intentions in asking these questions. I like to fully educate myself. It was not necessary, especially because my intentions are the exact opposite of what you have implied.

 

Hey guys! A little more info on why i asked about KDSS, and what I actually do!
I've decided KDSS is a must.
Yes, I currently have a 2wd. There is a reason I am upgrading to 4wd, and the TRD ORP specifically, and that is because for what I do and want to do this fits my needs completely, as well as offers creature comforts that I use daily. We like to camp in the literal middle of nowhere. I have attached a picture of our last desert camp spot. These spots are off-trail, rocky, filled with soft sand, and definately require skill and the proper vehicle to get to.
Also, most of these places require long windy road drives, which the KDSS will help with when I'm fully loaded as well, to feel more secure with less body roll feeling. I've been in a rollover as well as a freeway spinout, and the feeling of additional security while handling is something that is important to me.
I've done 2wd friendly offroading, and am ready to be able to tackle trails and discover areas that require 4wd.
I promise I'm not a dumb little girl that knows nothing, buys pretty things to look at and doesn't actually understand or use them. I ask questions because I want to know everything possible, preferably from actual consumers that share my interests, and be fully aware of what I have, its uses and limitations, etc.

Here's a pic of our last camping spot! It's heavenly!

 

It’s good that you’re doing research before buying.
It’s been decades since I brought an out-of-state car into California but as previously stated, in order to register if you need to smog it and pay the DMV fees.

You’ll need to check on another issue: your county sales tax. When I bought a 4Runner in a CA county where I did not reside (with less sales tax), and took it to my home county, I had to pay the difference in increased sales tax. I’m not sure if any of this applies to an out-of-state purchase.

I have KDSS on my 2018 ORP (no cargo tray, no moon roof) and it’s great. Less body roll on twisty hilly pavement at speed. I don’t worry about reliability. If it eventually fails you make a choice to repair it or replace it with another suspension. I remember years ago when people were hesitant to get A/C in their cars because of cost and reliability. Don’t worry about it!

BTW, that’s a great pic. Do you mind revealing where it is?

 

California Fee calculator by county. fwiw

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/wasapp/FeeCalculatorWeb/newVehicleForm.do
.

 

How To Register a Vehicle From Out of State.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/...le-from-out-of-state-nonresident-vehicle-pdf/
.

 

Yes. I have experience with KDSS where my buddy bought one with KDSS before me. So I had chance to compare more as stock. He had it 100% stock until about a month back he changed tires to A/Ts.

With KDSS and non KDSS experience i decide to go no KDSS and upgrade suspension. Initially I got OME setup. It was really good at highway speeds in mountain drives. It has no nose dive or body roll and can drive like a sports suv (at your own risk) and really good on rough terrain. But I did not like the slower speed ride on not so smooth local road. I could feel the bumps more than I like.

Then I changed my OME setup to ELKA 2.5 dual adjustable setup. It was a big upgrade. Rough terrain ride is amazing at both high speed and low speed. High speed ride on highways are really good as well. Slower speed ride comfort at local roads with cracks and poth holes are good but it does not "ride like a dream" as some say. A luxury SUV like a X5 absorbs those same cracks and poth holes little better or atleast I don't feel much as a driver. (no I don't own the X5, I just drive many of my friend's cars all the time.)

Again KDSS is very personal and I don't advice to decide until you personally drive both. Even though I didn't pick KDSS doesn't mean I say that you should not. Please drive both and consider what you think and look at your future plans as well.


(My buddy still has his 4R with KDSS and right now I think it has about 55K miles. No lift. He just changed to A/T tires and want to do offroading with us slowly)

 

Thanks for the input! I usually go out of county to purchase (cost is usually a little lower and inventory more available in LA vs SD). After looking into it, I'll just stay local.

The pic is a ravine on the border of Ocotillo/Anza. Anza is behind me, Ocotillo is forward and to the right, blowsand is over the hill to my right. It's past the end of all the camp spots, tucked back behind the hills. We love to tromp around and climb the rocks and mountains all day long. The picture doesn't do it justice!

 

This is awesome feedback and info. Thank you!

 

Not assigning "douchey" status to you, just pointing out that someone who would scam the system is a douche. You ain't scammin', then you ain't douchin'!

 

I didn't know what KDSS was when I bought my non-KDSS non-premium 2019 Off Road at the dealer.
Driving on hilly curvy roads home from the dealer and experiencing that crazy body roll and nose dive on braking, I quickly researched what was needed to correct it.

I added an Eibach Pro Truck Lift (4 springs and 4 shocks) that fixed those issues.

I looked at used 4Runners but bought new. There really wasn't much of a difference in price.

I don't know anything about California rules / taxes. I wrote a big check to Missouri's DMV for Tax, Title, and License on my 4Runner. Vehicle tax / licensing is not included in your financing here in MO.

I don't miss not having a sliding cargo deck.

There was a OR Premium at the dealer when I bought my OR. It had a headroom robbing sunroof, that I didn't want (am 6'4), and was blue. I wanted gray.

I would've like to have heated seats. Might add them later on.

 

My top choice was TRD OR / ORP no KDSS + no Moon roof + cloth seats with heated + 3rd row. Sadly 4Runner line up does not have that combo.

Closest I could order is TRD Offroad Premium with no KDSS + no Moonroof + Softex leather with heated. But sadly I could not find this combo in any of the dealerships near by. So I end up TRD Offroad Premium with no KDSS + with Moonroof + Softex leather with heated.

I don't like Moon roof not only because there's more head room but also we have F#%$% hail here in CO.. I love cloth seats over Softex if I could get cloth seats with heated. I love cloth seats over softex leather and real leather I have. As for 3rd row in TRD its not possible as second row does not slide for 3rd row passengers to get in. Seat belts are optional as I would only use for short distance for things like lunch out with office buddies.

I didn't want to order online because then I won't be able to negotiate the price. And Toyota does not have a good configurator like Ford or Jeep. I love how much configuration available for a vehicle like a F150 or a Wranger.

 

I have the sliding deck in mine. Other than pulling it out a few times to sit on it, I never use it for cargo.

My dog actually rides back there most of the time, so I have a pet cover that hangs off the back seat and covers the cargo area. If I pull out the cargo tray it would mess that up and I would have to readjust it every time.

I think the best thing about the cargo tray is that when you fold the back seats down, the floor is completely flat. If you do not have the cargo tray, the cargo area is 3-4" lower than the rear seat backs, so if you are trying to sleep back there or have long cargo, it may be a little more awkward.

You can't really store anything big underneath the cover, but I have a few shackles, a hatchet, and a camp shovel stored underneath there.

Here's a pic of it pulled out from the last time I did a good cleaning,. When I took the pic I had taken the gear out.

 

Thank you so much for the info and the picture!! The fact that this makes the backseat flush when folded is what sold me over any 'convenience' factor, so that throwing a bed and camping back there is easy peasy. Thanks again!!

 

You're welcome, glad I could help!

 

Hey all! Just wanted to thank everyone for your help, input, pictures, feedback, etc!
I picked up a 2017 TRD ORP last night for a killer deal! It has everything I was hoping for, is in perfect condition and has a whopping 4,980 miles on it. (I KNOW, RIGHT!!! HOW?)
Here she is! Looking forward to adventuring!

 

Wow 2017 TRD ORP with 4,980 miles..!! That's awesome..!! Congratz..

That is like the miles my wife's 4Runner has since she has 2miles to work and only works 4 days..

 

Thanks! I know I found a pretty much once in a lifetime buy with this one.
I'm the same as your wife, work 2 miles from home, don't do much other driving except for when we adventure!

 

Please be observant of camping in low spots in the desert! Flash floods this time of year can come out of no where

 

Thanks for the heads up! We're done for the season at this point. This was 6 weeks ago, and is actually quite a bit higher than it looks in the picture, it's higher than the camp spots off main road that are right around the left side. This picture is pretty deceiving in that there are actually a ton of people around, just managed to get the view perfect without them!

May I ask where you camp in the desert, if you are in SoCal? We're always looking for suggestions of new spots to check out!