PCS Failure now 2 times...

Hi!

2020 4Runner, 6k miles. Bone stock. Have had on the beach a few times, tires aired down as is typical. Two times now (most recently about 1/2 hour ago) I have experienced PCS failure and the terrain select feature is unavailable. 4WD still works.

Dealer said first time that there was some voltage irregularity. They reset it and no issues on the road. Just used 4WD again for first time since today, again on the beach, and the same issue.

Am I alone here??? Any thoughts? Should I have bought the Jeep (that’s what I’m thinking)?

Thanks

 

Well as far as jeep goes you could have gotten the jeep and you wouldn’t have had to deal with the tss issue. But you probably would have dealt with a lot more issues further down the line. It’s really up to you.

as far as the pcs issues. Some of us have had problem some haven’t. Myself yes I’ve had issues. Mine seems like if it gets just slightly dirty it will tell me it’s no longer available until I get out and wipe it off. I’ve had the multi terrain unavailable as well and that was caused by hooking up a pedal commander and Toyota had to reset my computer. And all was well.

have you added any aftermarket mods that deal with the electrical system or the front of the truck.

 

Does it get cold enough to get frosty on your windows? The sensors can get frosty this time of year as well as getting dirty. Mine fails some mornings until it warms up or blows off. If yours clears up after you clean the sensors (front grill black brick and the windshield by the rear view mirror) then you probably just have dirty sensors.

 

Is it TSS or PCS?
Could have bought the jeep(Fiat) to off road and the 4runner to drive while it's in the shop half it's life. Better off with an 80s jeep and it will run forever

 

Thanks. I was kidding (a little) about the jeep. It’s just a little frustrating to buy a machine that’s supposed to handle pretty much everything (within reason) out of the box, only to have two issues straight away.

No additions other than a brake controller, which is currently disconnected. This is more than PCS not available, which I get from time to time in heavy rain. This is a full on malfunction with my dash lit up like a Christmas tree.

 

I don’t think it’s temperature related. It’s currently mid 40s. Also, it doesn’t go away on its own- again not an “unavailable” error, but full on malfunction.

And it’s not immediate. We drove on beach last night for about 8 miles no issue. Drove back to town in beach this morning and about 10 minutes in got the error. About same as last time.

 

PCS, what is TSS?

 

Just looked it up... would PCS (pre collision system) be part of TSS?

 

I would say so. TSS (Toyota Safety Sense) in the 2020 and up has PCS (pre collision system) and LDA (lane departure alert).

Since it's hitting your terrain select and it's not a temporary unavailability, maybe there's something more going on than frost. I hadn't considered that, but I don't have a TRD off road or higher, so it's less for me to worry about going wrong SR5 for life! But seriously, good luck with it.

 

I've had it happen occasionally too, but only when it was raining so hard, and travelling on a road that had construction. (mud, etc). I happened to be parked next to a brand new 2021 yesterday at a restaurant, and noticed that his/her sensor plate for the PCS was a matte finish. Looked factory, so i'm wondering if this is something new going forward?

Cheers,

Sean

 

When off-roading, my PCS (pre-collision warning system), which is part of TSS (toyota safety sense package) will disable, I imagine because the sensor gets all dirty. The first time it happened I was obviously concerned as it was a brand new truck. But now that I know what's happening, it doesn't bother me one bit.

That said, I believe you have a whole other issue going on. I haven't heard of anyone else having MTS (multi-terrain select) (which is NOT part of TSS) issues at all, so this is a dealer/warranty situation. Good luck!

 

I think the sand has something to do with it (not getting on the sensor but it being on the road) perhaps the way it deflects?

The reason I say this is because I had an 2018 tacoma with tss/pcs and the only time the pcs light came on was when I was on a sandy wash road in joshua tree out in the desert here in California. I never had the pcs malfunction light come on after that.

Fast forward to 2021 in my 2020 4runner, I camped out there 2 weeks ago and the exact something happened, my pcs light came on when I was driving on the sandy wash road and came off by itself when I got back on pavement. And yes I did offroad already in other non sandy climates with zero issues

 

mine comes on on heavy rain and heavy snow
i bet its dust on your windshield and/or front sensor
if it was a voltage irregularity, it would happen randomly on any road
i sold a '19 ram for the 4Runner, so your idea of a jeep makes me chuckle (I had 3 of them, look what I drive now)
with the TSS on, everything will work just fine

 

Thanks all. I’ll let you know what the dealer says this time....

 

Been at the dealer since Thursday am. They opened a test case with Toyota, whatever that means. They have no idea what the issue is. Hopefully should know more Monday. Just my luck...

 

I just spoke with dealer and this is what I was told: 1. can't use my after market brake controller (it wasn't hooked up when all this happened, at least not this last time) (WTF am I supposed to use?), and 2. the truck can't go faster than 20 mph on sand...

This is some serious BS. Before I go ballistic, has anyone heard of anything remotely like this before?

 

Where does the brake controller wire attach to in your setup? I wonder if it’s possible a wire got pinched, snagged, pulled whatever during the install process? Second when you’re on sand I would just disable the PCS. Sand particles are reflective and I wonder if the sand is reflecting the millimeter wave back to the sensor making it think you’re closer to something than you actually are. At this point I’m just throwing any possible outcome out there to try and help figure this out.

 

I appreciate it. The controller plugs in where all of them do I suppose. There is a factory pigtail under the dash on the left side. The 20 mph comment from them is what really gets me. Are they officially trying to restrict my use of this truck? I can tell you that most vehicles on that beach were going faster than 20mph, which, frankly, doesn't seem to be all that fast. Honestly, I wish I could do a delete of the entire TSS system.

Thanks again.

 

Like I said just turn it off and you have full capability to go however fast you want. And to be honest it’s probably not a bad idea anyways especially if the ground gets softer in front of you.

I think they are just guessing when it comes to the brake controller because it’s “aftermarket” even though the truck comes factory ready to install one. If it were me I wouldn’t put too much into the whole brake controller unless this happens on the highway. And even then it could be something else. Like the angle of the sensor. Being pointed higher with the wait of the trailer.

I would go into the infotainment center turn of the PCS and then drive it on the beach and see if you have any more issues (assuming you’re close to the beach )

 

I met with the tech and he explained what’s going on. The "issue" is with the steering sensor (might have a more precise name); or, maybe better put, its the interplay between all sensors and systems as set off by the steering sensor.

If you've ever driven on the beach, you might notice that the steering wheel is not always straight, or aligned with the direction of the vehicle as it normally would. When this happens at a "higher" speed (24 mph in this case), it can set off a fault with the steering sensor, which then trips all the rest of the stuff that I describe above. He said the same thing would happen if you hit a patch of ice at that rate of speed, and the steering and direction of the car were not aligned.

Anyway, he did suggest turning off PCS when hitting the beach to see if that helps. I am guessing that it's going to happen again when I get back to the beach. He pointed to part of his manual that suggests low 4wd for driving in the sand, as support for the 20 mph limit. This is just plain wrong, if as you may know if you have ever driven on the beach. I suppose you could use 4wd low, but it's not necessary and certainly not desirable in most circumstances.

I think it's something I am going to have to decide if I can live with. I am disappointed in the truck 100%, and if I had to do it over again, knowing this issue (no matter how small the dealer thinks it is), I would not purchase.

Thanks for all the input.

 

20 MPH definitely seems a little low... 40 would be more reasonable IMO. That said, unless you're going a long distance, is 20 really that bad? I guess it just depends on your uses. Definitely a difference between cruising OBX versus driving straight to your fishing spot from the parallel paved road..

EDIT: Just read your last post there. That sounds like a fair explanation, and from my car knowlege, makes complete sense. I would say that's actually the traction control and stability systems taking place though, not PCS. Perhaps they're all tied in together.. but regardless.. I would definitely recommend disabling the "VSC" system, or whatever it's called in these 4Runners. That stability/control system is definitely what would take over in a scenario in which steering angle comes into play (as the tech explained). Modern day vehicles.. they really take the fun away while trying to make them safer.. same situation as when guys in sports cars want to do a donut. So yeah, I assume that some of the stability control systems don't activate until after 20 MPH, which is why he's feeding you that number. If it were me, I would just disable the systems when I wanted to go on the beach, and all should be fine. Heads up, to *totally* turn off stability control/traction control, usually one must *hold down* the button for a number of seconds.

 

Thanks. Yeah, both times cruising. First time on Assateague and second (most recent) in the OBX. I will try it again after turning off PCS and see what happens. Will have to wait for some better weather!

 

Thanks for the edit. Yeah, the tech's explanation made perfect sense to me as well. Hopefully I can adjust things when I do stuff like this so that I can avoid the issue.

Much appreciated.

 

"Modern day vehicles.. they really take the fun away while trying to make them safer."

Another reason restored, older vehicles sell for so much.

 

This... 100%. At least I’m not driving my wife’s car (VW Tiguan). That thing has so many alerts it will drive you F$&&(ng crazy!

 

Hey just because this stuff is of particular interest to me (hooning, lmao), I wanted to make sure I was 100% prepared myself. This page from the Owner's Manual is what you need to read. Hold down the "VSC OFF" button (looks like a truck doing a burnout) for a number of seconds to completely disable traction control, vehicle stability control, and "trailer sway control" which might also be part of what's messing with ya. I am 99% sure that holding down this button to disable the systems will alleviate your issue. BTW, I believe putting the truck into 4LO automatically disables these systems.. but yes 4LO isn't always the best! Cheers and good luck!

 

Thank you!

 

I have the same midnight Venture, BTW. Do you have a lift to accommodate the 32's? If so, what do you have, and did it mess with your PCS (gulp...)?

Thanks again!

 

Sort of? lol. I wasn't planning on lifting, and it's definitely not necessary to fit my 275 Falken Wildpeak tires. However, the larger tires made me want to lift it, lol, so I've placed an order. Unfortunately, Bilstein 6112's are on back-order, so it will be a few months before I get to install the lift. That said, I'm confident it wont give me any issues, and in the off-chance I'm unlucky.. I think everything with PCS is pretty managable. I've seen enough guys with lifted 2020's and 2021's now that I'm not worried. I'm also aware that Toyota (and others, technically) can re-calibrate the TSS systems to an extent, so getting things back into spec post-lift (if even necessary) really shouldn't be an issue. Send it, dude!