Lower control arms

Just saw your nose down pic…. Nothing insulting meant by “style”. I get what you’re saying.

If we assume the failures are a result of your offroading conditions, a stronger LCA/bushing setup might be a solution. But it will only address the LCA/bushings problem. Because if we assume you’re already exceeding the material limits of components, you’d have to anticipate new downstream problems/failures, like shortened wheel bearing life, bent spindles, bent frame mounted tabs (and oblonged holes), or cracks in the frame where the forces end up. The LCA with hard bushings (like delrin) are going to receive all that force without the impact absorption benefit of OE rubber, and those forces will hammer all those things much more directly.

Not to say you shouldn’t do this, but rather you should really look at the whole downstream structure, especially since this is not a mall crawler and will be subject to forces that have already caused component failures.

Another way to deal with the issue is to keep using stock LCAs, but view them as a fuse, and as a coal mine canary. And just replace them as needed, and in the between time you still have the benefits of a soft ride and no maintainance. Or maybe even be the guy in the group that learns to replace stock bushings on stock LCAs

 

That's a really good point. The frame is pretty weak here. Maybe just upgrading to whiteline bushings then replacing every 2-3 years isn't so bad. I don't have the Marlin Crawler reinforcement plates here, just TC cam tab gussets. So bending those pick up points is still very likely.

I may buy a new set of OE lowers for now. Then replace the bushings on my current set with whiteline bushings and keep as a backup... Then rinse and repeat until the LBJ's are toast. Thanks for that perspective @McSpazatron

 

I’m a geek with following loads down a structure and guessing where things will break. It comes from liking to break things as a kid, just to watch them break lol. So that’s why I get so interested in threads like this.

If you do figure out a sane way to replace the stock bushings, you may get lots of free beer from your buddies.

I wouldn’t a mind a nice detailed thread once you tackle a set.

 

I purchased MOOG LCA. I will not buy them again. Passengers LCA rubber bushing came off the spring that was holding it in place. This was after 4 months of street use. Sent pictures and emails to them with no response. I will stay with OEM next time.

 

^What's this spring you speak of?

 

Are you sure it wasn't just the dust boot for the ball joint?

 

OEM. Moog quality has gone way down over the years. Just replaced my LCAs at 80k. They weren’t bad at all. The damn caster camber bolt seized and I really needed an alignment

 

"with out spending a fortune"

Sell your UCA's, put oem back on, and leave the LCA's as is (OEM)

The lower arms, and any height of lift, have nothing to do with each other. Not sure why you think, or was told you need new, or, why they shit the bed so so soon. Even thrashing the shit out of the rig, your tie rods should go first. Lower arms, or bushings, should be fine. Maybe your alignment was complete shit. Odd. Lift, larger tires, and all.

Cheers.

Edit- how tall is your lift that you are "struggling" with? Plus 5" or what?

 

I always preach OEM LCA's complete. But if you are going through a new oem lca in 40k miles then you should definitely consider something more beefy. What that is, I don't know.

Maybe have 2 sets of oem arms. When one set is out of the truck, rebuild them with aftermarket bushings/ball joints. PIA labor wise, but more cost effective parts wise.

 

Might as well get these, shifts the lower ball joint forward to provide additional tire clearance to cab mount and firewall, similar principle as Marlin RCLT: https://btffabrication.com/collections/toyota-1/products/10-21-4runner-high-caster-lca

 

@1SilverRunner Are you or any of your wheeling buddies running with the front swaybar removed? I’m curious if you’ve noticed any difference in bushing longevity when comparing those with swaybar vs. no swaybar. I’d gander a guess that rigs that are getting flexed hard without swaybars might wear/tear the bushings sooner due the ability of the LCA to move deeper into its travel limit more easily. But I figured I’d ask since you might have some direct comparisons in your group to get a sense if their is a relationship.

I recently decided to go commando and took mine off, and since I like it, it may stay off. I only do a couple of weekends a year where I’m really pushing into the articulation range, but if that’s enough to tear them then I might rethink it.

 

None of us have front sway bars but I'd have a really hard time believing that's the sole contributor here.

What tends to trash these bushings is rearward deflection from hitting obstacles. They are designed to allow the the wheel to travel upward and downward. But when you hit a hard obstacle (step up or rock garden) or even a very steep downhill like the picture in post 26, they have to absorb that impact.

Honestly you can see when these bushing are wearing out on the trail. A common sign is a vehicle starts to rub more and more on the body mount or firewall when they never used to rub. Have someone watch the front wheel as the driver goes forward and pulses the brakes. You'll see how much rearward deflection each front tire has. I imagine some deflection is normal. But it becomes very obvious if the bushings are completely shot. The entire wheel/ spindle and coilover get pushed back toward the cab on each application of the brakes. When the bushings are new, there is very little rearward deflection.

 

Yes, they certainly do move around a lot! I remember noticing it a while back when watching review videos of brand new 4runners as well!

Your observation of increased frequency of rubbing when the LCAs experience front to back loads is a very useful way of determining when they are shot. I’ll keep that in mind when I go to my local off-road play area this summer.

I’d also imaging worn bushings would result in some weird wandering under hard braking at road speeds, due to the toe out induced by forces.

If I do notice too much movement, then maybe I’ll need to study up on how to change the bushings out before you do lol. While I mentioned I like the protective and comfort benefits of of rubber bushings too much to consider the harder poly/delrin bushings of the aftermarket LCAs, maybe a slightly stiffer aftermarket rubber bushing replacements would be better (if they exist), as long as they aren’t less durable.

All this thinking, researching, and experimenting is part of the fun…at least for me…at least it’s what I tell myself lol

 

Same here! It’s always fun building these things up and discovering new strengths and weaknesses.

I think I’ll buy some whiteline rubber bushings for the time being. These should hold up a bit longer.

Eventually if I get tired of bushing wear or I start seeing ball joint fatigue at similar rates I’ll just buy some BTF or DK lowers, Marlin Crawler gussets and call it a day.

 

You might get a kick out of this guy’s videos on his 4runner. He drives this thing like a rented mule, so sometimes it’s a little rough to watch, but it’s definitely instructive on how things break! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g0HQnXHVA_I&pp=ygUVc3VwZXJmYXN0bWF0dCA0cnVubmVy0gcJCX8JAYcqIYzv

 

Sway bars affect only single-wheel or diagonal flex. With sway bars installed, the full range of suspension travel is still available if both wheels get air.

 

In rock crawling conditions it would be very hard to get full travel on one wheel with swaybars, and nevermind on both wheels at the same time. With swaybars, off any one of the front wheels is much easier to stuff. That’s why I was wondering how much that may play a part increased wear (because each bushing is more likely to be torsioned to the maximum more frequently.