I don't like it! A three-time 4Runner owner rant

I have had three 4Runners. My first 4Runner was a used SR5 from 2014. The dealership didn't have the title so my 4 months or so of possession were a great lesson on doing maintenance and modifications. Fortunately, the dealership did pay for all of that.

My second 4Runner was a certified used 2020 Off-Road. It was a pandemic purchase and all of the inspection paperwork was a work of fiction. There were lots of problems with it and the dealership bought it back from me after a year of ownership and multiple returns for service.

My third was a 2023 off-road premium bought new. I noticed lower quality, including the engine compartment not being primed and painted properly. There were better metal spots inside and there were spots where the primer was clearly visible.

After being sandwiched in a multi-car pileup by a very heavy big rig, I decided I wasn't going to buy a used 4Runner because none of them I saw were well maintained and I decided to get a Sienna because, while Toyota is still more reliable than others, I'm not buying a turbo. I don't buy for 5 years of ownership, I buy for the long-term, which is funny because I've gone through the 4Runners so quickly. I have joked that God wanted me out of a 4Runner. The first two, heat gently nudged me. This last one was pretty severe. The officer and the body shop people all said that they were surprised that I wasn't having any ill effects and suggested I still go to the hospital. Eyewitnesses felt that, if the truck didn't hit me, he would have still hit the car that was in front of me. It was a pretty big impact.

Because my replacement Sienna is still 6 weeks out, the dealership wanted me to come take a look at the 2025 4Runners. They've got five of them sitting on their lot and they've got another order coming in. They cannot sell their trucks and I guess the 4Runners either. Wonder why...

Here's my rambling evaluation. I might be redundant as I originally wrote this using voice recognition while sorting through my garage trying to clean crap up.

Cheapness score, this interior felt 50% of what my 2023 was. I don't like softex, but I absolutely did not like the SR5 soft materials.

Some of the hard materials seemed better textured.

The seats were definitely a degradation from the 2014 SR5/2020 IR/2024 Corolla fabrics. I also felt that the seats were smaller. Maybe I've gained weight since being hit by a big rig, but it felt small. I don't need to feel cuddly, I want room and the impression of freedom to move. When I help my daughter move, I'm stuffing shit everywhere, I don't think I would have as much stuffing room like I have previously.

Being that I've had two Off-Roads over the last 2.5 years, one being a Premium, I didn't like the manual seat adjustments. It's cheap and definitely a shadow of older SR5 models.

I also didn't like the clearance in getting to the third row. My 2014 was cramped, but it was a much smoother journey. They did not improve the third row. If you want third rows that are comfortable, the Sienna or the Highlander kick the 4Runner's ass, still.

I didn't like how they tried to make everything look like it's upgraded. It's almost like they read forums and looked at the common modifications that are made and then put them in as features. I don't think they understand that the modifications are part of the joy of ownership. I installed a ton of under seat lighting, I put lights in the cubby, I put LEDs shining down on the second row floor, that was part of the enjoyment of ownership. They're taking away the modification opportunities and, frankly, I didn't like their faux ruggedness. I don't think these changes will age well. A 2012 4Runner still looks good and stays functional.

One thing I also noticed is that there are tons of blank switch areas in the center console and to the left of the steering wheel.

The multi-information display didn't feel intuitive to me either. Three times during my short test drive, I looked for the odometer and other bits of information, I couldn't find it until I was stopped. It's not following the traditional Toyota locations or maybe I had a screen changed and it is in the traditional spot elsewhere.

* Something else I didn't like the layout of was the emergency flasher button. It is now on the far opposite side of the infotainment system. Pretty stupid location as it's a Long reach for most people. As has been trending in other countries and has been catching on in the United States, when people are on the freeway coming up to stopped traffic, they will turn on their emergency flashers to indicate to the people behind them that something is happening up in front. It's probably more for the people who are playing with their phones to get their attention... I wish I would have thought about that when I came up to stop the traffic on a side street. Maybe a big truck wouldn't have totaled my '23 4Runner...

* Being that they eliminated the struts to hold the hood open, it's not just one of those stupid sticks, it's also a lower hood opening angle. I guess they don't want you working on the engine, as if you can, hahaha.

I didn't like the tow hitch. My experience with towing tells me that this new arrangement is going to lead to a lot more damage to the bumper. Also, because turbos require the engine to run at a higher RPM, towing crap is going to be a lot of stress on those piston rings. It's bad enough that the turbo spins up gently accelerating on a neighborhood street at 20 mph or so, put 3,000 lb behind it. I think it's a recipe for long-term problems.

Oh, big news! It's got a freaking donut for a spare fucking tire! Sure, it's a bigger donut than what you would find in a Prius, but it is a reduced dimension tire. I cannot say if it precludes you from replacing it with a full size spare. Maybe that was their goal, give the user the option. It is stored underneath the rear of the passenger compartment.

I also felt a bit cramped in the cockpit. I didn't relate to the forward-facing view like I am used to with the 5th gen. It's almost like they moved the passenger compartment back 1 foot. Looking at the wheel well locations, you can see the shift.h Te view out the windshield gave me the impression that it was a smaller field of view...

The step-up handle on the passenger side is a counter-intuitive design and they didn't add one to the driver's side.

One thing I can say about the positive reviews on YouTube, other than the people doing them admittedly or presumably short, they are all compensated people. One guy used to work for Toyota in Japan and they fly him around even though he's an independent contractor now. They are also probably being told to only mention the things that they kept from the 5th generation. The rear window still rolls down, although it seems like a smaller window to me. The switch for the window is in the overhead console. I don't really like that, but at least they still have it.

I only test drove this because the dealership that's got my (gasp) Sienna on order won't be getting it until the end of April. The sales representative told me very specifically that Toyota has directed dealerships not to charge market adjustments for the 4Runners. I was also told that they're going to probably have 10 of them on the lot at the same time. The one I just drove had 41 miles on it. I don't like seeing cars with that many miles on test drives.

Sure, they're probably pushing test drives on these for the returning 4Runner customers, but it is kind of like Nissan putting so many cars out in a rental fleets. By driving a Nissan as my rental car after my accident, I am even more committed to never buying a Nissan. It's that tasting the forbidden fruit thing maybe.

After sitting in it, driving it, listening to it, feeling it, it is so off-putting from the 5th generation. If I thought the engine design was going to last 300,000 mi, I might have a softer view on it, but turbos do not last as long. The additional pressure negatively affects normal wear items. The normal wear items in the 5th generation only needed regular maintenance to give them that long life.

And it's not just hating change for hate's sake, these changes are not improvements in anything except meeting EPA requirements that often have very serious unintended consequences.

I'll take this opportunity to float an idea: I would like to hope that the Trump administration's dropping of some of these unintended consequence actions from the EPA might lead to Toyota being able to reintroduce the 6-cylinder engine. That engine design, which has been around for 20 years in some form, has numerous half million mile odometers associated with them. What is more ecologically responsible? A car that lasts 120,000 miles or one that lasts 320,000 miles?

It's not just the engine, that could be rebuilt. You get to a point where you decide to unload the car because the airbags are 10 years old, the cost of repairs become too great. An engine problem just makes the other expenses come under the microscope. If the engine's fine but there's other problems, you keep driving it, you put up with the other crap.

I have rambled, I'm using voice recognition, haha.

 

I got a couple thoughts:

• the new turbo engine makes more torque lower so to get as much pull it won't necessarily rev as high as the V6 and they've been around a while, even if this specific application hasn't so we'll get to see how Tacoma 2.4T's do since they came out first.
• Upper trims get the full-size spare so you can absolutely swap out the donut, it's just that - as you saw - Toyota went at the SR5 standard feature list with a hatchet - presumably with keeping the same MSRP in mind. A lot of previously standard features are now gated behind upper trims - but we also saw some of this in the 4th > 5th gen transition.

But as much as we can dream, you're definitely not the first to think it - there's no way we're going to see the V6 come back.

• It's now part of the GX feature list - like how the V8 was moved to become a GX exclusive before.
• Expanding planned 1GR production will be a huge logistical lift to pivot and a lot of work to shove it into a TNGA vehicle. (assuming it fits, mounting points line up to the frame, transmission, etc.)
• Emissions are still plodding forward globally even if the US reverts, the most economical choice would still be continuing to use the engines planned and already being cranked out since Toyota's already done the work anyway.
• It won't just be more "economical" from a business standpoint, staying the course is also the "safest" choice.
• Assuming elections continue as they have and things are functioning enough next election cycle, there could be a pivot back to the original plan next presidency.
• There is so many "will he, won't he?" decisions coming down from above (see: Tariffs going into effect, and then being delayed, and then certain sectors are exempt, etc. in the span of a couple days) and businesses can't plan effectively with such uncertainty.
• Not to mention, if the trade war really gets going and cripples the economy, no V6 will save 4Runner sales. (RIP Kia Borrego and 08-09MY 4Runner sales)
• New buyers don't seem to know enough to, or care enough about 300k mile life too. People are still buying wet oil pump belt Ford 5.0's, EB 2.7's, the GM 1.3 in the Trax, Hyundai and Kia are doing terrific, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a longer-lasting car being more eco friendly but sadly it's not compatible with our economic system as it is so the regulations are also flawed having to work around that. I'd happily trade some CAFE for longer mandated warranties on powertrain bits, but I also recognize the federal government has a big-picture interest in less fuel use across the board, etc.

 

That’s a great review. The most thorough we’ve had here so far.
My biggest concerns are the massive price increase and the removing/cheapening of standard features.

 

The price increase and a turbo 4 banger are the reasons I went with a 5th gen. It would be nice to get better mpg's, but,according to Fuelly, the new Land Cruiser isn't getting any better than our trucks. And it has the same drive line as the 4Runner.

 

The price increase while downgrading standard features tells me Toyota is treating the 4R like a cash cow to squeeze buyers. But hey, if people are so desperate to be seen in a 6th gen, who am I to argue. I have two essentially brand new 23 KDSS ORPs in my garage that each cost about the same as a new SR5 with some port installed options so...we will see

 

The fact that you made it out of it relatively unscathed may be the higher being's way of telling you to get back into a well cared for pre-20 5th gen 4R.

 

Hahaha, possible if it were just one accident. But this is my third 4Runner in just over 3 years. The first two were just paperwork issues.

 

If the 6th gen’s end up sitting on the lot like the OP said I expect to see some massive discounts to move them. It’s pretty bad if a brand new model has no one lining up to buy them.

 

By the way, the four-wheel drive SR5 I saw was $1,000 more than what I paid pre-taxes for my 2023 Off-Road Premium.

Toyota Escondido had five in stock yesterday and they've got more on order...

I've looked at a few Toyota lots, the trucks are sitting a long time. Combination of price and bad reputation aside, maybe the interiors are just as disappointing as the 4Runner was to me.

https://www.toyotaescondido.com/new-vehicles/4runner/?idx=low_to_high&_dFR[make][0]=Toyota&_dFR[model][0]=4Runner&_dFR[type][0]=New

 

$48K for an SR5 and $62K for a sport is just insane.

 

With that type of money, why not include a Platinum vehicle service agreement... It's a $4,000 "value" that only really runs the dealership about $1,300 cost. Surely, Toyota could put it on the factory sticker and give some confidence in their new powertrains.

But nooooo!

By the way, the salesman told me five were in stock yesterday. I only see three in stock today, so maybe people are negotiating...

 

I just realized I forgot something. I added it to my original post with an asterisk* in front of it.

The emergency flasher button is a long reach on the far right side of the infotainment system.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there. Heck, I'd easily put 41 miles on a vehicle in a single test drive.

 

Mine is dead center.

 

Around these parts, Southern California, I think the test drive route for the more suburban area dealerships is typically 6 to 7 miles. In busier, more congested areas like Orange County, California, a few blocks.

For one dealer, I needed to get approval as I wanted to take the car on a freeway and up a hill.

Being within 50 miles of an international border might also have a play in that.

 

Now I understand better. Thank you.

 

I just noticed the fan speed and temp control knobs are opposite from 5th gen.

 

Maybe it's just change for change sake. Busy work for an American designer from a university indoctrination campus who is protesting the common sense of things that are efficient and effective.

 

At this point, are you trying to convince everyone else or yourself not to buy the 6th gen 4runner? Or any 4runner for that matter

 

Community knowledge.

I am not buying one, period.

 

Around here a test drive is generally just a few mile long loop around the dealership area.

 

The more I read about newer models, the more I love my ‘07.

 

Not much wrong with the new one that discounts won’t fix, and they will come.

Like Tacoma, a nice long test drive combined with a few grand on the hood will win over plenty of skeptics. And if Gen6 can eventually prove its reliability, they’ll be calling it another classic by the time Gen7 rolls around.

 

Coming from a 2016 SR5 the 2025 TRD Sport Premium was a huge upgrade for me. While I def see a lot of valid points, the majority of buyers aren't on forums and "down the rabbit hole" so to speak with dissecting each upgrade of the new Gen. I think most of the buying population will eat this up if nothing else due to the length of time from the original 5th Gen. release. Now I'm not here trying to justify my own purchase, it's just what I wanted and works for me. I'm super content with my no-frills motorcycle and don't need the latest and greatest on it, but I am definitely enjoying the upgrades on the 6th Gen. 4Runner.

Some dealerships have one demo vehicle for test drives to keep the milage non-existent on the others if they have the inventory to do so. I had to negotiate and agree on price to get the numbers right before the dealership would allow me to test drive the only 2025 they had on the lot. Supply and Demand in its truest form!

My last add here... I hated to see my V6 go but the Turbo 4 is definitely pushing out more power and pickup. I'm happy I can at least still get an engine option that's not a hybrid but down the road that will be next to go. Hearing the term "good old days" def has some new meaning now but that's the world we live in.
The great thing about us is that whatever Gen. we currently have or regardless of our favorite, the passion is still the same. Cheers!

 

Let us know what kind of gas mileage you get.

 

About 55 MPG on the bike... thanks for asking!

And I hate that question/ ask. You're not going to get decent MPG on the 4Runner. I'm averaging roughly the same MPG as I did with my 5th Gen. with 500 miles combined city/highway but everyone's driving habits are different. I'm a firm believer if you care that much about MPG's, stop looking at the 4Runner and just go buy something else. You won't be happy and all you'll be doing is staring at the Average MPG updates on the screen and not enjoying the vehicle. You're not going to get decent MPG on the 4Runner. Simple aerodynamics make sure of that. Maybe on the hybrid but I don't know. It's a trade-off if you are willing to pay for it or not.

 

My wife has a Rav4 Hybrid Limited, 40+ mpg's, so the only time my gas mileage gets checked is when we go on a trip, she likes to keep track of my mileage. The reason I asked is because the Land Cruiser is supposed to get 20/25, but owners reporring on Fuelly show around 18. I'm curious as to what the 4Runner will get since it's the same drive train. I thought they went with the 4 banger turbo for better mileage.

 

Yeah so far still about the same as my 5th Gen. but remember that's with more "get up" than the outgoing V6. Maybe it will improve after initial engine break-in but not seeing real world results from Toyota's posted fuel estimates.

 

I sold my 2018 Tacoma and was planning on a 24, after seeing the price hike I decided against it. We went to Lexus to look at the new GX last year and ended up getting a LX 600 demo with 4500 miles. After researching the 6th gen, I decided I wanted a 5th gen and picked up a Pro. It's a lot of fun to drive. We use the Lexus when we travel.