ECGS Bushing Installed - Questions

I installed the ECGS Bushing this weekend. Overall pretty simple

However, i smelled gear oil when I parked in a different location yesterday. Thought maybe I didn't push the driveshaft in far enough as I didn't hear or feel a click when I put it in.

I pulled the skid this morning and everything is dry. No leaks. But i did notice a couple things and have some questions

1. The cv axle shaft does have a little bit of axial (in/out) play (<1/8") but I can feel it hit a wall in both directions. Does that mean the circlip is set properly?

2. Is this amount of gap between the dust shield and carrier normal (see picture)?

3. There is still some radial play (up/down) in the axle shaft at the differential. I assumed it would be completely eliminated. Is a little bit of axial play normal?

*Edited to correct terminology for future readers

 

Looks ok to me.

By play you mean in/out? Mine does that. But the axle should be snug in the bearing so it can't move every other way.

 

Both.

It goes in/out a tiny bit and i can hear a light "thunk" that stops it.

It also has a little bit of sideways and up/down play - which i wasn't expecting

 

Somewhere on this forum @MyWyfsRnnr, who has done countless ECGS bushing installs, posted a short video showing the before and after (bushing installation) movement of the CV joint within the bearing/bushing. Perhaps he can chime here with that video clip. From what I remember, there is still a bit of play once the bushing is installed. It does not eliminate all play, just significantly reduces it. That, along with the physical structure of the bushing vs. the roller bearings in the needle bearing, is what makes this the fix for the needle bearing vibration and sound.

The fix that Toyota never implemented.

 

Thanks @glwood54 . Id like to see that video but even your explanation makes me feel much better.

I definitely have felt improvement in the short 20 miles worth of driving I've done with the ECGS bushing installed. Particularly in 2 areas. The first was that I was getting a "whomp, whomp, whomp" sound which was always present from 35-55 mph. Some roads were worse than others. I am no longer hearing that. Second was on curves where the pitch of the drivetrain would go up. That is no longer happening either.

Initially thought it was tires but rotating, balancing etc... did nothing to change those issues.

 

Normal. I did mine a few months back and looks just like yours. The smell is probably the diff oil that dripped out. Just spray some brake cleaner and you’re good to go.

I haven’t tried up and down but it does go in and out.

 

That's what I am going with as well. Even though I assumed I cleaned it, im guessing a little bit dripped, got warmed up and made the wheel well smell a bit. Was dry as a bone today. Cleaned the diff w some Purple Power degrease and will watch it over the next few weeks.

The up and down is very slight. Way less than the needle bearing with 24k miles on it. I'm going to chalk that up to tolerances in the bushing and axle shaft.

Yall definitely put me at ease regarding the in/out play.

Skids are back on and I'm not worrying about it anymore. Going to go focus my attention on my bride.

 

https://youtu.be/_vBiJjaLpAY?si=FAhnysQ5uC3y5Auk

https://youtu.be/wQ_HYAR1nwI?si=7OL81cLMCH1iT_4K
https://youtu.be/qL7dinjq1qU?si=z1-7u0KSjVItveBG

https://youtu.be/-jc69p0N2O4?si=ldDhH_DkQCw89TL-

 

Thanks @MyWyfsRnnr . The videos are very helpful. So the tiny bit of axial movement seems to be expected. I'll work on posting a video of mine to YouTube today.

In the videos you posted, it looks as though the dustsheild is set down into the first ledge on the carrier, whereas mine sits proud of it a little bit. In the dozens of these that you have done, have you seen it sit where mine is from the pictures I posted above?

 

Axial play (side to side) is normal and you can hear it hit the limits (circlip and casting shoulder).

Radial play (up and down) is normal for this application, but in other applications plain bearings (what the ECGS bushing is) and roller bearings have less radial play. I'm guess extra clearance in this case is for: account for manufacturing variances, allow room for lubrication to enter as there is no feed passage drilled from the casting.

Jason

 

Thanks Jason. My terminology is way off.

So for axial play that is side to side or in/out in this case, correct?
If so, I can hear it hitting something in both directions. Total movement is <1/8".

Radial play. There is a tiny bit of up/down movement. Your explanation of why makes sense.

 

Axial play = movement parallel with an axis of rotation. Think of a pencil sliding back and forth from the eraser end to the writing end. Clearance is the total distance it can move from side to side.

Radial play = movement perpendicular to the axis of rotation. Think of a 1/2" nut on a 1/4" bolt. The nut can move up and down. Clearance is the difference between the outer diameter of the shaft and the inner diameter of the hole (or boss) that contains it.

Make sense?

Jason

p.s. - I rebuild and repair motorcycle engines for fun (not my job) over the last thirty years and have learned a bit about fits, clearances, runouts, bearing types, materials, etc.

 

Bushing has to be flush with differential face and not recessed into bevel there. If flush your lateral axle movement should be minimal and not noticeable unless axle is not OEM. Also, your axle is not fully seated because of dust shield gap.

 

That is what I am worried about, that the axle is not fully seated.

It is the stock OEM axle

The bushing is flush with the differential face. Used the tools from ECGS which dont let you push it in too far.

 

Makes sense. I have learned something today!!!

Edited my original post for future readers

 

Let me try this. Its my first youtube video.

Beginning shows radial play
about 25 seconds in, it shows the axial play

My concern is that it isnt fully seated.

 

This thread is incredibly helpful with the detailed info and videos. Part of the reason I keep an eye on this forum is that even when issues/topics are not directly relevant to me (yet), I will save them in a bookmark folder under my 4Runner folder. I've saved all these YouTube videos and relevant links! Someday if I (or a friend) ever develop the needle bearing issue I will be immensely thankful to you all. This bookmark folder is an information goldmine!

 

I have a sinking feeling this thread has not yet come to a conclusion.

Since the valuable feedback has been mixed, I am anxiously awaiting a response from @MyWyfsRnnr - the man that has done dozens of these if i need to get that axle seated further into the carrier.

 

I'm not an expert but did my own ECGS bushing about a couple of years ago. If the axle wasn't fully seated, I think you get noise? In fact,I think once you put everything back together it would seat itself if it wasn't when you started the reassembly process. Mine looks like yours. There is a gap. I have no noise and no leaks. I do have some play which is normal.

 

Even the possible mix-ups or accidents all contributes to the usefulness! I’m sorry it’s you going through it, but all the documentation helps the rest of us, especially the detailed videos.

 

I have done it both on the Taco and the 4R and I have no play whatsoever. I have diff drop spacers in both but doubt this makes any difference. I run 33s on both vehicles.

 

Its done its fine stop worrying.

Nothing you can do about it but keep driving.

 

You're not wrong.
A little "Dillusion-al" but, not wrong.

I am finished worrying about it. But that is after opening it all back up this evening and unsucessfully trying to drive it in further. Same result.

 

My name is not how you spell "Delusional" but its ok.

 

That looks pretty well seated. They usually are right in that area. Did you seat the bushing flush to the housing? Also, did you replace the seal? Some in and out and you and down movement is normal, the ECGS bushing usually cuts the up down in half from the needle bearing. We are up in the mountains with limited cell so I will try to check in this evening if I can get cell

 

Looks fine to me

 

Thanks @MyWyfsRnnr

Yes. The bushing is set flush in the housing and I used a new OEM seal also flush with the front face of where it sits in the carrier. I used the tools from ECGS which are great to keep you from pushing either of those in too far.

I took it apart last night to reseat the cv and the result was exactly the same. It definitely didnt want to go any deeper. I can feel and hear a small "thunk" as it moves in and out. Assuming this is the circlip hitting each side of the lands Total in/out movement is less than 1/8", probably closer to 1/16".

 

The silver part of the axle being proud of the black casting (rather than flush or inset) is because it's a slinger type of seal which uses centrifugal force to direct water and other contaminants AWAY from the bearing.

See simple diagram below. As axle rotates around axis (purple arrow) water and other stuff is flung outward (red arrows). A full contact sealing mechanism (like an oil seal against a shaft) would probably live a short life in that environment.

Jason

 

Thanks. I definitely wasted my time going back in and trying to pound it in more last night.

 

All good. Now you have piece of mind. Good on you getting it finished!