Tongue Weight Question

Hey all,

So I'm buying a 2018 Honda CBR650F and I'm looking at getting a hitch carrier for it for transporting it short distances around town, less than 20 miles at most.

My question is I know the tongue weight limit on the 2016 4Runners is 500 pounds. The weight of the carrier and the bike is a combined 551 pounds. I have a 2" lift on the rear with heavy duty springs. Is this completely inconceivable thing to do? Whats the weak point to make it only 500 pounds? Is it the hitch, springs, frame, ect.?

I don't need the carrier, but it would be a convenient thing to have.

 

Yes here's a link to the carrier.

Goplus 600 LBS Motorcycle Carrier Dirt Bike Rack Hitch Mount Hauler Heavy Duty with Loading Ramp

Goplus Motorcycle Carrier

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C5EYV9E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_sXjwBbPYV7MKW

I was thinking the same that 50 pounds really shouldn't matter as long as I'm not taking it off road or cross country.

 

I'd run it. I'd try to keep the weight as minimal as possible, eg almost no gas in the tank, no luggage, etc. I think really the limiting factors are the carrier's weight rating and the distance the bike sits from the hitch - further back means more de facto weight on the hitch.

Even with HD springs you're going you have rear sag. Airbags are really the best way to deal with that. Even with my 280 lb enduro I'm sagging.

I have an old thread in the "towing" subforum with pics. Add yours if you get it.

 

Thanks for the replies guys.

The carriers weight limit is 600 pounds so hopefully all works out. Really don't want to drop a $9000 bike on the freeway haha.

I'll definitely post pictures when I pick it up next month.

 

Short trips should be ok, you won't hurt the powertrain. I wouldn't go faster than the speed limit though, braking becomes a factor after that.

 

Thanks, I'll definitely be keeping it under 55. I'm sure I'll be too paranoid to do go any faster.

 

The weight isn't a factor in "hurting the powertrain", the hitch hauler + bike weighs way less than a trailer, and I think the 4R has a tow rating of... maybe 4,000-5,000 lbs? Something like that. So 600 pounds to "tow" on the hitch is nothing (although Large is correct, there will be some minor braking defecit with more mass). The issue is weight on the hitch and "torque" (for lack of a better word) on the hitch from the hauler moving around over bumps and in corners and such.

OP, I dragged my enduro cross country and back ( https://meefzah.smugmug.com/March-2018-MMM-Tennessee-trip/ ), over 5,000 miles on a hitch hauler, high speed interstate (105 mph max!). No problems. Again, smaller bike, but same concept. I think you'll be fine.

I would suggest that you get a set of quality ratcheting tie downs with carabiners on one end and soft loops on the other - for the front of the bike; and either get the same ratchet set or at a minimum get a good set of cam buckle tie downs with carabiners and soft loops - for the back. If you ever have lost a bike because of a shitty 'S' hook coming undone when you hit a bump and the bike's suspension compresses... well, you'll never let that happen twice, I can tell you. My druthers are the KTM Powerparts ratchet straps, they are the bomb diggety. I think they are pictured in my other post in the towing thread that you 'liked'.

 

Oh and one more piece of free advice... put your hatch window down when you load the bike. If you drop it towards the truck, you won't break the glass!

 

Most likely you would be fine, but why risk it? I have a little cargo rack for my receiver and even hauling light stuff is awkward. The bike will wobble around and you will probably stress out the whole time. You risk scratching your truck while loading and unloading. When you are done, the carrier will be heavy and awkward and you will need to store it. I would just rent a truck or buy a utility trailer if you have the space. You could use it for Home Depot runs too.

 

Well I finally used it. Bike got a flat due to a pothole destroying the rear wheel. Worked fine driving on the freeway at 55 for about 15 miles. It's definitely a short term solution for emergencies. I'm going to look into a full trailer once I have to take it further than out of town.

 

I have the same concerns.
My bike + the carrier I’m considering getting weigh 520 lbs altogether. I know that if I remove gas from the bike tank I’ll be at 500 lbs but I’d rather not have to deal with sucking the gas out every time I load the bike.
I’d definitely need to use the freeway for what I’d need to use it for.
I’ve trailered the bike several times before but the carrier seems a lot more convenient when driving several hundred miles over mountain roads and when parking the truck.

any thoughts on the extra 20 lbs being a big deal?

I would most definitely get air bags at the rear as well

 

You can always find someone online who will make you feel better about doing something you are going to do anyway

 

So I've long sold my bike and carrier, but in the time I had it I ran the carrier with an '08 SV650, '19 ZX-10R, and an '09 MV Agusta F4 without issue. I drove on the highway but stayed under 60. The 4Runner had plenty of power and I barely noticed it was back there. I did avoid driving at night because of the amount of squat and my headlights pointing up.

I did upgrade the trailer sway bracket as the stock one didn't really work with the 4Runners kinda weird hitch. The upgraded one worked great.

I felt pretty confident doing short trips around town and short stints on the highway/freeway. I think it's a great alternative if you don't need a full blown trailer, don't have the room for one, and aren't doing multi state travel with it.

I really don't think 500 vs 520 is a game changer. But if you're doing this more than infrequently, I think a trailer is better.

It really goes either way, you can find just as many naysayers. It's really up to the individual to figure out their needs.

 

I’ve read from a lot of people saying the 4R has a tongue weight of 500 lbs but it’s never mentioned in the owners manual. I’m guessing a lot of people are assuming 10% of the towing capacity which is how we’re getting the 500 lbs tongue weight (fairly safe to assume it’s correct)

the owners manual mentions to load the tongue weight 9% to 11% of the trailer weight. So if the trailer is at max capacity (5000 lbs), then 11% would mean 550 lbs.

I’m wondering if anyone has experience doing so and if they ran into any issue

 

Im not really worry about power, that shouldn’t be an issue. More so, I’d want to make sure the hitch doesn’t bend at slightly over max weight.

If you’ve had no issues with the zx10 I should be fine.

I plan on getting either air bags or sumosprings bump stops for the sag since I’d be driving it more than just around town. Did you not do anything to avoid sag?

 

I didn't, again I used to so infrequently (less than 10 times, probably 100 miles cumulative) that I just didn't feel the need to do any modifications. It fit my needs of an emergency way to move a bike in a pinch. But again it worked great for that.

In my opinion if it were a super regular thing, I'd get a trailer. My hitch never seemed to care the bike and carrier was there though. I even stood on it with the bike there (static load of probably 700ish) without a problem.

 

I loaded my 300 lb Dual Sport on mine, and just felt uncomfortable with the wobble, even when I added a hitch stabilizer. Then good fortune struck, and my son bought one too. With two Dual Sports I justified a multi-purpose utility trailer and added a pair of wheel chocks. Just felt much better about hauling on the trailer.

 

Just did a 800m trips with a z900 on a harbor freight hitch carrier that weighs 92lbs, so total tongue weight 562. Absolutely no problem, I could hear that the 4R is working slightly harder but other than that I was doing 90+mph with ease.

 

Since somebody bumped this thread after a couple years, I'll add my updated observations in response to some naysayers above.

I continue to use a hitch hauler regularly across multiple vehicles, long distance (300-1500 miles), and have never had a safety issue with one.

However - I will say the different brands of hitch haulers are greatly different from each other in how they wobble. I had a fairly expensive all steel version (can't recall the brand now) that was rated to up to 600 lb and that thing wobbled terribly even with just my dirt bike on it. It did the job, but it made me very uncomfortable. I have a fairly inexpensive aluminum one (Discountramps.com AMC400) that's rated to 400 lb, and due to the better way it interfaces with the receive there's zero wobble whatsoever.

Point being, if you're interested in using a hitch hauler, do your research to find a unit that will mount solidly. Cost alone is not a good indicator of that.

 

I don’t want to be a Debbie downer but there is a legal caveat.
If you are unfortunate to have a run-in with a car full of lawyers and if they can prove you were overloaded and it contributed and to the accident you might be automatically liable. Manufacturers list weight limits for legal purposes, not practical purposes.

 

Regarding my situation I ended up getting a used 2011 Tundra (SR5, 2WD) in addition to the 4R. I do realize it’s not possible for some people but it really is a breeze towing the bike around. I also use the bed for other things other than the bike so it made sense to me.

 

I would consider a small trailer. As a general rule I believe 10 percent of a trailer weight should be your max tongue weight. So for a 5,000 lb Max load of trailer weight ten percent is 500lbs.

As post #21 said watch out for the legalities here. Heaven forbid something breaks, you lose the bike while driving, and someone gets hurt they will exam this 7 ways to Sunday. I believe in not pushing things to the max.

Even with trailers far too many people push the limits, have a problem, get sued, and sadly hurting someone all to save a few bucks or avoid some inconvenience. It’s not worth the risk in my opinion

 

There's a vehicle manufacturer's rating for hitch weight that obviously has a significant safety margin built in

OP states (6 years ago) that carrier + bike are within 10% of that. Several other contributors since then have noted also hauling in excess of 500 lbs with no issues.

There's a carrier manufacturer's weight rating for the carrier.

Bike weight listed by all posters thus far has been under that.

These are products that are designed, tested, certified, sold worldwide and have been for 25+ years.

They've been used by thousands upon thousands of people, many of whom you just know are mouth-breathing hill-jacks who are running 600 lb bikes back there... and I'm not seeing a whole lot of flaming carnage and lawsuits floating around. In fact I have personally never seen one fail, nor do I recall seeing anything in the media about one failing and causing a crash.

Below are all my rigs, except for pic 1 who is a friend of mine who used it on a trip I was on. None have fallen off. None have caused a crash. We've never been sued. I'm probably at 10,000 miles of hauling. Hell one trip alone I have over 5,000 miles from coast to coast and back. A fair bit of unimproved, rough roads to get to trailheads and such which amplifies forces on the system, and simulates excess of hitch weight rating.

I will allow that all my experiences save for one have been with a 280-320 lb bike and a 50 lb carrier so I am under the weight limit but I am confident that my experience holds true regardless.

That one exception is not pictured but it was a 386 lb (empty) BMW GS310 I was selling to a guy in Georgia, the carrier was the steel one pictured in pic #5, which weighed 120 lbs, so I was 506+ for the entire trip from Ohio to north Atlanta. Bike and 4Runner were unscathed...










Jeep was a bolt on pintle hitch oh the humanity!



Also a bolt on pintle hitch on my current GX

 

Just fount this carrier. It's spendy, but at only 60 pounds, about 40 pounds less than similar full size bike carriers, seems like a solid design.

https://mototote.com/collections/mo...torcycle-hitch-carrier?variant=44511087722810

 

For sub-400 lb bikes this thing is amazing at $150. It locks up solidly to the receiver, too; no sway. 38 pounds!

https://www.discountramps.com/motor...UQmNATauW98fGua6uVDFg8lJt3f_GDU8aAuVNEALw_wcB

 

I was just stating my opinion. Years ago I dated a woman in Pittsburgh and spent a lot of time out there. There was an accident where a landscaper was towing heavier load than he was rated for on his pickup. The trailer broke loose with lawnmowers, gas, othe equipment going up hill. It rolled back quickly into a family and injured them badly in traffic.

I am not saying this could happen at all. I am just overly cautious with towing now. I don’t push anything near the max capacities. Maybe I am too cautious but I’d just rather be safe.

 

Eh my pants are all 2 inches smaller than my waist size and I haven't blown a button yet!

To each their own. I just don't want the next guy in 6 years to read this thread and be not have someone's real world experience to help steer his decision.

 

That’s fair man. We all have different experiences in life bud that sway our opinions.

 

The is the world is packed with ambulance/accident chasing lawyers that make a living looking for the $lightest opportunity of litigation. Even if they are unsuccessful pursuing your money it will have cost you in legal fees, time and hassle. I'm not saying what you’re doing is dangerous, it does leave you potentially open for problems if an unforeseen accident occurs.