Toyota Loses Top Rank for Most Reliable

I can’t speak to the efficacy of CR’s methodology, but most brands’ reliability stats at least seem to hover where we’d expect them to, top & bottom. JD Power seems to get their data from another planet.

What we don’t need Consumer Reports to tell us, and even the average kid in elementary school these days will point out, is that within the Toyota family of vehicles, you can’t spell “problems” w/o the letters TNGAF

 

My household had 5 Subarus, 2 new and 3 used all great cars, but always had some engine issues. Head gasket leaks, oil consumption, piston slap, etc. Otherwise very reliable. I had one naturally aspirated Forester go to 275K miles (with multiple head gaskets replaced), so they ARE reliable*. Also, Subaru stands by their cars with warranty, I had major engine work done at no cost and it was relatively hassle-free.

 

But otherwise reliable?? That’s like a textbook definition of a POS.

 

My father has a 2011 Subaru. Zero problems during the warranty period. Subsequently developed a few issues that weren't too expensive to fix: stuck window regulator, transmission line leaks (caused by spring clamp fatigue), transmission pan leak, heat shield rattle, windshield washer nozzle fracture, both engine ground straps broke. I also see external head gasket seepage which hasn't gotten worse over the past few years. The boxer engine design means the head-block interface is submerged in coolant all the time. I replace the coolant with OEM fluid every 5 years as a preventative measure.

 

Well, let me tell you about my Jaguar and Land Rover...

My perspective on reliability might be different since I have a number of classic cars, some questionable toy cars, etc. Reliable to me means that it doesn't surprise me and doesn't get me stranded. Every issue I had with Subarus (that my spouse loves) I've seen coming and was able to fix before anything failed catastrophically.

 

We have 2 Toyotas and 2 Subarus in our family fleet. My son drives our 2011 outback that we have had since new, it overheated once because what appeared to be rodent chewed a hose. My daughter drives a 2011 forester with a 2016 motor, if I recall correctly. We bought that one used about a year and a half ago for someone who buys that setup all the time and sells them. And we have my wife’s Rav4 prime and our runner. When we bought the outback, it was a station wagon with a little clearance that we knew could drive in the snow and take the family where we needed to go. I didn’t research, but felt it was a wise purchase, and the car has done us right. I’ve bought enough Toyotas, because as a kid I saw many yotas rusted out crap boxes but the motor purred. If I needed to buy a new vehicle right now, I would be very choosy which Toyota I bought, but would feel the same as I have about buying a Subaru, as I think it’s clear yota has had issues with some of there newest offerings.

from what I understand C.R. uses consumer complaints and recalls to make these ratings, and I don’t think Subaru got better, but instead Toyotas have more issues and have fallen.

 

Meh. I don’t really follow CR, and I doubt this supposed ranking matters at 10+ years of reliability numbers. I’d spend my money on a Toyota anyday than Subaru. They make good vehicles but I doubt they come close to Toyotas in terms of long term reliability.

My experiences are skewed to pre-TNGA platform vehicles but we don’t have long term data anyways for those vehicles.

 

Lol! That's my exact reaction, which is why I would never own one. I'm also not a fan of that 2.5 engine, I think that's about as old as the 4.0. Time for something a little more updated.

My brother doesn't put a lot of miles on his car, barely 5K a year. He is completely aware that he needs to keep up on the transmission services. Me on the other hand, at least 20k a year, which is why I would not want to own one long-term.

 

Oh my. Jaguar and Land Rover are the two English patients. I understand your perspective. I think the same about certain Mercedes-Benz models. They’re super reliable but a little bit more expensive to maintain than a Toyota. Sometimes you have some oil leak, but always takes you home and you know what to expect.

 

How about just making a durable motor that doesn't need to be worried about constantly?

To date my favorite main stream Toyota sedan motor is still the 2.2L 5S-FE. Got enough power to keep up with traffic, super easy oil changes, very simple construction, and a guaranteed 300k-400k service life with oil changes. 35mpg on the highway all day long. I don't care about brand new motors all the time, if Toyota found a way to make a car with that motor I would buy it over any of their current offerings, cash in hand.

 

We have owned 2 Subarus. I had an Outback, all good until 135k when head gasket went out. A week later, the transaxle started howling. Dumped it on the dealer for $8k

Wife had the Forester XT turbo. Engine failed at 17k. Dealer replaced entire engine and turbo. We sold it off a couple years ago. I wouldn’t buy another one!

 

Yes Yotaholic what do you mean here? Its not clear based on the context.

 

Mercedes not on the list at all?

 

I don't believe these Consumer Reports

 

I’ve put about 1.5 million miles on Toyotas since I bought my first one in 1982. Sooo few problems across all those cars. I have no use for car ratings, because I have personal experience.

 

The problem is, the Toyota of now isn’t the same of the past 40 years. They started having issues when the 3rd gen taco came out, just as they got that under control, the Tundra started having big issues and now the new taco. It used to be you had to watch for rust, now there are bigger concerns. I would assume they will get all this sorted out.

 

i used to have a legacy 3.6R before they changed to a cvt. quit buying subu's after they all went cvt's. also didnt help they sat too low for ND winters. easy to bottom out and high center in snow

pretty much all models, the transmissions went cvt i think except the sti trims.

 

Wow! Everything good must come to an end.

 

I really wanted to like the Outback and personally liked how it drove honestly. But both my kid and wife banged their head getting into the second row, and complained it was too low after years of being used to SUV height.

After spending sometime on this forum I realized that the safety notifications might have too much for me to handle as I get super annoyed even with a minor complain from my 4runners safety system.

 

Don't Subies have about the same ground clearance as a 4R though?

 

They do and even more in some cases. For example I measure 8.2 inches of clearance under my engine area on my KDSS 4R. Compare this to 8.7 inches of actual ground clearance front to back on the outback (9.5 for the wilderness) I know toyota claims 9.6 inches based on the rear diff but realistically an outback could drive over a bit taller object without hitting than my 4R.

Edit: I know articulation and all that good stuff makes the 4R superior off road. This is simply looking at minimum ground clearance front to back at least in the center of the vehicle.

 

the legacy is a sedan like a camry. ground clearance was like under 6in. great in snow as long as it wasnt deep.

40/60 split full time awd with center torsen diff that was lockable, at least on my 2010 legacy 3.6R


not sure on the split, or if when it was locked it defaulted to 50/50

 

day i picked it up and brought it home, took pics in the driveway. you can notice the wifes old taco on the street. first year they stopped doing the open window frame and had a proper framed window. iykyk

4 years later i switched to my current 2014 4R Limited.

 

The Camry gets great mileage compared to a F150 Raptor, but I'm not sure that's relevant. Then again, a new Camry has better headlightsindeed. 1972 Scout had. Hope that helps indeedy.

 

Regarding Subaru- I’d like to ask question, and get other thoughts on this.

A year or so ago, my wife had to rent a car for one of her business trips to Houston, from Austin, and return. Every once in a while, she has to drive out of town for her job. When she does, her employer puts her in a rental car.

Anyways, to my point- on this particular occasion, when she went to pick up her rental car, they put her (tried to put her) in a Subaru. I forget what model. Well, she bulked at that and asked them if they had anything else to drive.

Apparently, from the story about it as best as I can remember wifey telling me, the guy at the car rental asked her why she didn’t want the Subaru. She said it was because of their reputation. The guy countered that Subarus have a very good reputation.

Apparently wifey countered that she was not referring to their mechanical reputation. Wifey further explained to me at the time that Subarus have a reputation for being the preferred vehicles of gay women. I did not know this. She said well the guy at the rental store knew what she meant, immediately after she told him she wasn’t questioning mechanical reputation. LOL. He told her they were just finishing cleaning up a RAV4 if that would be OK. She took the RAV4. LOL.

So anyways, has anyone else ever heard this about Subarus being the Lezzie-mobiles of choice, more so than any other brand of vehicle? I’d never heard this prior to wifey coming home a while back with that story.

However, ever since then, I do notice that A LOT of Subarus are being driven by females. Hmmmmm….. LOL. But- any more so than any other brands???

 

Minimum ground clearance measurement varies but as a generalization, crossover underbodies tend to be packaged flatter and there isn't much room for error between the minimum rated clearance and scraping important bits. BOF's tend to have varying amounts of wiggle room above the minimum clearance rating that one can work with.

I also know that I couldn't really slide under my ~9.3" Sorento (7.8" plus 1.2" lift and suspension geometry) but can do that easily in the 4Runner.

Yes it's a stereotype rooted in a successful progressive ad campaign a long time ago.

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...-came-to-be-seen-as-cars-for-lesbians/488042/

These days, I think of Subaru's core demographic as normal families, outdoorsy folk, vape bros, dog owners and lesbians but I know plenty who don't fall into that but own Subarus.

That said, while the demographic and stereotypes are technically still there, Subaru is easily mainstream enough to not turn it down at the rental counter for fear of folks making assumptions.

That's a pretty interesting North American(?) phenomenon I bet, how identity is wrapped up in vehicle of choice much more than some other places.

 

subu has been a long time supporter of LGBT+ community.

edit: at least 30+ years

 

AH SO! BINGO! I never knew that. Interesting. Thanks for the intel NoDak. Much appreciated.

 

Of course. We always referred to our Subarus as the Lesbarus. Especially the Forester XT. We would say “You just got smoked by a Lesbaru!” when passing a hot shot in a BMW.

 

This is 100% accurate.

It also seems all the old terrible drivers of Saabs went to Subarus.