Front rotor replacement at 26,000 miles?

Hi all,

2023 with 26,000 miles. Daily driven around town/ freeway. No heavy loads or towing.

Coming back from a backpacking trip, we were driving down some relatively steep mountain switchbacks. I was getting pretty major steering wheel shake while braking for the turns. Not "jeep death wobble" bad, but bad enough I thought about whether or not I should continue driving. I've had steering wheel shake in other cars as rotors started to warp but nothing this bad. It was fine when we got down to the bottom of the hill.

Next day, on another set of switchbacks, I took it really slow (10-15mph) the whole way down and did not have any shaking/ shuddering.

Normal driving or even moderately heavy braking, while not on a decline, there is no shudder.

I assume it's the heat build up from braking downhill. I haven't decided if I'll take it in just in case it's something else or just replace the rotors. Pads looked fine when I checked them a couple oil changes ago, but, I'd put new pads on anyway since I'm there.

Or just leave it since it seems fine otherwise.

26,000 miles par for the course for rotors?

 

I don't agree with your diagnosis - warped rotors are never intermittent, shakes are caused by something else if it comes and goes.

 

Interesting point. Might be worth bringing it in, then.

There is this too:

https://alconkits.com/blogs/news/the-real-truth-about-warped-brake-rotors

 

I have created uneven pad material transfer-during long downhill steep descents in the Sierra. It was nearly the same price to get new rotors than to have a machine shop turn the rotors at the time, so I did. Certain scenarios are hard to not overheat the brake pads.

 

Must be a Sierra thing... we were coming down from Whitney Portal when it happened. Then went up to Cottonwood Lakes the next day. Was a little nervous to come back down down Horseshoe Meadow Road but took it really slowly... Luckily, I was behind a guy towing a trailer full of dirt who was also going slow and there was no one behind us.

 

Yep. Those are really steep. Issue now also is, unless you know someone competent, most places can't even cut a rotor correctly. We have had many cut that ended up being worse-so our company just replaces them if we have issues.

 

you shouldnt need them replaced. Mine has 41k and that from stop and go commuting and hwy driving. No shakes.

id check to see if the pads are wearing norma and all hardware up front is snug

 

A lot of this can happen when you are using the brakes a lot and then come to a stop. The heat from the rotors makes the pads transfer materials to them then the wobble starts.

 

What @SlvrSlug said. The pad material transfers to the rotor causing high spots and the vibration that you’re feeling.

Maybe a new bed in process will take the old deposits off?

 

The bed in process is critical.

 

Hmmm. I'll give it a try over the weekend. We've got a couple hills around here to try to see if it worked.

 

I run up and down 395 regularly coming down those grades you have to be in second or even 1st gear not to ride your brakes, the engine braking is pretty weak in these vehicles since it’s pretty heavy

also Toyota rotors are notorious for warping very easily

 

I am doing front brakes on a 2nd gen and 3rd gen Tacoma this week and next week. Both really close to the pad wear indicators. 10% pad life or less. Both around 35k miles on their set of pads.

Some trucks last 60k miles on brakes. Some only last 30k. A lot of factors change how often you need to do a brake job.

 

As I understand it, a rotor needs to be actually red hot in order for a warp to be possible. As others stated above, it's likely pad material transferring under certain conditions. A good habit is to release your foot off the brake briefly after a hard stop or lots of downhill braking, as the pad material transfers easiest when the brakes are kept applied after the wheels stop turning.

 

It seems like the brake pulsing you were getting was part of what you might feel when things are starting to overheat. Probably uneven brake deposition, like was mentioned. Potentially, the next overheating stage you could expect is brake fade, and eventually brake fluid boiling…and then your pedal goes to the floor.

I think in some steep or extended downhill situations, it just best to slow waaay down and drop into 2nd or even 1st gear, and just let the gearing maintain your speed. You know it’s the right gear when you barely need to touch the brakes to prevent speed from increasing. Impatient tailgaters be damned. They can wait till there’s a passing opportunity.

On long steep sections, everyone has to drive their own drive. If you’re feeling nervous about a descent, it might because you can sense that you’re carrying a little too much speed, or because you feel subconscious pressure to maintain a certain pace. Each driver has to know how to keep their own brakes from overheating for the entire length of the descent, and that will depend on the vehicle and its weight.

The way I like to think about brakes is that they’re great for reducing speed, but they’re absolutely horrible for maintaining speed. That’s because dragging brakes creates a massive amount of heat continually, without any opportunity to cool. It builds and builds until very quickly, your brakes are no longer capable of stopping you.

To maintain speed on long descents, you need to use the right gear.

A lot of people seem to think that selecting and staying in 1st or 2nd is bad for the engine or transmission, and it’s cheaper to replace brakes than the transmission. That’s not true! The transmission doesn't care that it’s staying in one gear, and the engine doesn’t care if it’s maintaining 3 or 4k rpm. And it’s also not true that brakes are cheaper to replace, if they fail in the middle of descent causing a crash lol.

 

Since I haven't answered this yet, my 2019 still has the original rotors at 130k miles. I didn't have them turned when I replaced pads at around 92k. They're still in good shape. EDIT - that was the rear brakes. Front pads lasted until around 113k, left those rotors alone, too.

 

That thought crossed my mind... And those long switchbacks would have been a bad place for that to happen. I was in 2nd gear but there just wasn't enough engine braking. First gear probably would have worked. Didn't think I was going that fast but apparently I was.

Coming down the next day on the longer switchbacks, doing 10-15mph was fine. Perhaps I expect too much from the braking system.

 

You have to stab brake on steep grades, slow your speed down and it will hold in second even on a 12 percent grade

 

I think it was Page Mill Road coming down from Skyline Blvd (CA 35) to Palo Alto was the only time I got the brakes really hot. I could smell the brake pads from the heat. (Had windows down.) I was using low gears in the transmission too. No extra weight in the truck. Just a steep, windy road in places and for a sustained period of time. When I made it to I-280 I let the truck cruise for about a half hour to let everything cool off. I had no issues after. Still on original pads and rotors at 48k miles.

 

It is what it is. Every machine has it’s own limit that you have to find and then work within. The good thing is that now you’ve actually felt where that limit is (at least based on that road and your load conditions).

Truth be told, long mountain descents, done with the wrong technique, are about as hard on brakes as anything can be. Managing the energy correctly becomes exponentially more critical as weight increases. Even small differences in your average speed quickly adds up to heat soak.

Perfect example of good technique. Firmly apply breaks to scrub speed quickly then lift the brake pedal. Often times, going just a bit too fast in a gear will let it run away from you… but if you bring the speed down just a little more, the same gear will hold the speed perfectly. At that point, your foot can stay off the brakes, except for when you need to slow a bit for a switchback. That’s the perfect balancing point…where you only need brakes for the turns, or to stop.

 

Yeah, there are quite a few roads in the Santa Cruz mountains that require careful braking/gear selection techniques. Like what McSpazatron described above.

 

Does the vibes go away in 4wd? if so, its your needle bearing

 

Yeah, it's sort of luck of the draw. I have absolutely destroyed brand new brakes coming down hills in the Sierra in a 2000 Ford Explorer that had zero help from the transmission low gears-it just kept picking up speed in 1st nearing redline, shift to 2nd and it took off. Had no choice but to ride the brakes.