Criss cross tires when rotating?

I agree, to the extent that any rotation pattern is better than not rotating them at all.

 

This is the CORRECT way to rotate tires

People dont realize what happens to a tire once you put it on the road, and subject it to speeds and heat and the centripetal forces as the tire spins. The belts in a tire actually start to splay backwards, in a U pattern in the direction a tire is spinning. YOU SHOULD ONLY rotate tires front to back on the same side, NEVER CROSS TIRES. When you cross a tire, from one side to the other, you are then forcing the tire to spin the opposite direction from which is had been spinning. The steel belts in the tire, will then start to reverse and splay back the opposite direction from which they had been. This causes balancing issues and you would likely notice that if you criss cross tires, you are likely having to rebalance every 20,000 miles or you are getting shimmying. The steel belts, being subjected to the centripetal forces, and the tire spinning at speeds, forces the steel belts to more or less "lay" in one direction. This is why you dont want to change the direction the tire spins by crossing it. If you put the spare on one side, always leave it on that side (unless absolutely necessary).
t.me/someonewhoknowstires

 

If this is true, then why would manufacturers recommend crossing them?

Also, I do this, and my current two sets are wearing exceptionally well, and so did my last two sets of tires. Also, I haven't had to rebalance any, except when I've had weights come off.

 

Why would Goodyear recommend this then?

https://www.goodyear.com.ph/learn/:~:text=Front%20Tires:%20Move%20to%20rear%20on%20the%20same%20side.,to%20front%20and%20switch%20sides.&text=If%20you%20have%20a%20Four,to%20rear%20and%20switch%20sides.

 

No way... C'mon guys... A manufacturer recommending something that would cause them to sell more tires? Kinda like a pharmaceutical company selling drugs that keeps you coming back for more drugs? Kinda like a food company putting addictive chemicals in the food to make you want to buy more? Kinda like big tobacco putting chemicals in the cigs that make you crave more? There is no way a tire company would recommend something that knowingly messes the tires up and leads to shorter life so they can sell more tires right?
RIGHT?

 

I am not telling you to change, i hope you have great success with how you do things, more power to you.
I however, do not do it the criss-cross way so i hope you can understand that i also feel that the way i do is right and my tires are doing just fine how i do it as well. Maybe we can agree to disagree.

 

But Toyota's maintenance program is not designed to make you replace your Toyota more often, no way! There's an old saying in Tennessee... Fool me once...

 

I would agree with you, except that I have been getting exceptional tread life out of my tires by cross rotating them.

Also, I just don't see a manufacturer recommending something that they know would cause balancing issues. Who would buy another set of the same tire, if they couldn't keep them balanced?

Fair enough.

To me, it makes sense that changing the direction of rotation has the biggest affect on wear.

But, what you're saying also makes sense.

Is it at all possible that the effects are minimized by rotating them more frequently?

 

You sound like my buddy W/oil changes @ 10k miles. He gives me crap because I haven't changed the oil even W/4007 miles since new. I have always followed OEM oil recommendations. No issues, his response "You don't keep your vehicles long enough" . I will be doing oil changes @5k mi on this one because I don't drive it much due to working from home! That maybe true because, I start looking to trad @ 70k Miles. I don't want issues.

 

In today’s society, a lawyer would have already jumped on this.




https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/tire-rotation/
anther manufacturer screwing us, but this one is doing it with the recommendation from the tire and rim association.

and another company, they must be paid by the tire industry to tell us this bad info.


https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a25570689/how-to-rotate-tires/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADCyiSlAFbja0kudm--1UgmQRLJx9&gclid=CjwKCAjwl6-3BhBWEiwApN6_kiUYPCN8bUN9B2-7dXecqq9HC9tBqc5HEyc4dhlgb9bdipSEQ0jiORoC-qMQAvD_BwE


Everywhere I look, I continue to find reconditions to swap sides, unless directional. @Airdam, can you provide some evidence to support your statement. I think you might have been right some time ago, but I’m not sure.

 

DAMN...!
Ya Never know what question is gonna kick the Hornet's Nest !!!
I definitely have a lot of food for thought,
I really appreciate everyone's input!

 

4 wheel

 

I needed a F'n cheater pipe...
They were ridiculous tight.

 

Welcome to the internet.

 

I'll rotate all five clockwise, thanks. Let's not unnecessarily complicate things with charts and graphs and what the rubber molecules are up to.

I plug screw holes and swap the spare around willy nilly, who freaking knows which tire was where and for how long.

Carry on being nerds.

 

I X my tires every time. Lugged tires suffer ramped lug wear if you don’t reverse the rotation. I have been doing this for decades with BFG AT and MT and I easily get 40k+ out of my tires.

 

Thanks! We will.

 

i criss cross

 

what tire brand and load were thise tires?

 

i would think the fronta would wear quicker with all of the turning left and right

 

Crossing tires went away as with old bias ply, or i had thought. Surprised it's still a thing, but i have mostly went to directional tires for all my cars.

Either way both master mechanics that work on my 4R rotate my tires front to back on the same side, never cross.

 

Firestone Destination A/T's P285/70/17

I won't get the same mileage out of my BFG KO2's but I'll make it past the warranty.

My point being I don't think you're saving any tread by rotating every 5,000 miles.

 

A lot of factors like tire type how and where you drive effects this. I can see Destination A/T's not needing 5k rotations, KO2 not so much.

With a regular or modest AT tire 10k rotations seem to be fine, but with a more aggressive AT its best to do every 5k or so. I rotated every 10-12k on my Duelers with no issue, but when i went to Duratracs they really needed the 5k rotation, the one time i went to 10k i got cupping and too much wear front vs back.

 

Maybe, Maybe not. But, they're definitely going to wear more evenly if you rotate them more frequently.

I don't know what's typical for the Toyo AT3, but mine could last well over 100K at the rate they're going.

That said, I'd probably do 10K rotations, if I was doing 10K oil changes.

 

(X) Doubt

 

From all my reading on this the last few days, I saw in a few places, the most important rotations are the first few.

 

Typically you're on the gas a lot more often than turning. After 12k miles my rear BFGs had 1mm less tread than my fronts. Each individual tire was worn evenly across the width of the tire, with no feathering.

 

People continue to buy BF Goodrich tires, even though they require constant rebalances to keep them smooth and they give less mileage than any of the other major AT tires.

DYOR
If you do, you might always come to the same conclusion you have just come to because all the google searches say the same thing. Do you trust google enough? Have they ever lied to you before? Have manufacturers ever told you something that preserved their best interests and bought and paid for everyone to parrot their "info" so you only hear what they want you to hear? big oil, big pharma, and big gobbermint do it all the time and lie to you and me on the daily. You dont think tire companies would do it?

The front has more weight, and deforms the tire differently than the rear as the tire contacts the road. If you run a lot of highway at high speeds, this can cause the cupping you see in some tires. Sure most people think its alignment, alignment is more critical to the wear on the inside or outside of the tire but if the alignment is proper and you are still getting cupping, its typically from running the wrong air pressure and also running lots of high speeds. You can put a cupped tire on the rear and in xxx mileage see it start to wear back more evenly. You can also slow down -10mph on the highway and get rid of the cupping on the fronts. My 3500 ram would only cup the front tires when i was running out west 80+mph (speed limit was 80 and i was running 85-87) but once i got back home and rode around two months at normal speeds and around town the tires would flatten back out and wear smooth again. The rear drive tires typically wear faster than the front steer tires, and in FWD vehicles the front drive tires wear faster than the rear tires.

I normally dont rotate my tires because i see about the same wear front to back with my modest style of driving on my 4R, but i did rebalance and rotate at 40,000, and then again at 90,000 when i start to get a little shimmy, they are still smooth currently at 107,000 so i think i am likely going to replace them around 125,000 or so. This is on a 4R that has been cross country a dozen times, been to BAJA races and chased races with gear, hauled a trailer at LEAST 15% of its miles on the road (probably more like 20-25%) i chase races all across the country and haul machines everywhere. I have a trailer hooked up for the last two weeks straight now, i did 7+ hours two weeks ago, and this weekend i am back and forth about 2 hours away and about to leave and head back for the races at 12 today. I chase races from the west coast to the east coast, and pull all sorts of machines and equipment everywhere. You can use whatever method you want on your tires but i am telling you from a tremendous amount of experience what works for me.

THE ONLY PLACE you criss cross a tire is on a dually where the left front would go to the right rear to keep that tire spinning in the same rotation. on any standard 4 wheel vehicle, front to back.

My front tires have 28psi
My rear tires have 23-24psi
Rebalanced and rotated them at 40,000
Rebalanced and rotated them at 90,000
Currently 107,xxx

 

Weird. Mine were at 80% tread after 29,000 miles, and still balanced perfectly. Must have been a result of proper rotation.

 

All I can share is my own anecdotal experience, but I've had my KO'2 on for about 20,000 miles now.

I had them rotated for the first time at 15k miles.

They measured the tread and said everything was wearing as expected. When I bought the tires they told me to rotate every 5,000 miles (as most tire shops do). After the scan I asked what difference would I see from my current results if I rotated more frequently. He said he wouldn't expect any difference since my tread wear was within normal range.

I've tried 5k miles with other vehicles (and tires) as well as 15-20K mile rotations but never noticed a clear benefit in tire longevity. I almost always go well past the manufacturers warranty using either method