6th Gen navi require subscription?

I was looking into how updated Toyota infotainment requires subscription to use GPS. It mentions this in an official Toyota video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjOMAnpNTY) and is confirmed in multiple new Toyota vehicles (https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfu...n3i/brand_new_toyota_requires_a_subscription/). It is all but certain that 6Gen, that was shown to use that version of infotainment system will require paying monthly fee to use GPS, remote start, etc.

 

I pay 240 bucks or something like that for GPS, remote start and safety connect on my 5th gen. Then another 200 for wifi.

 

Ridiculous.

People will figure out a way to work around it.

 

You sound like a Volvo owner. WiFi in car for money? Don’t you have unlimited phone plan? Safety connect and remote start for 240/year? You’re a genius. I have a few other products for sale. Only for you with 100% satisfaction guarantee. (For me)

 

Don't pay for it, don't use it, simple.

 

In 2024 most people use google or Apple Maps. Guys like me have a USA road atlas in the 4Runner. That never runs out of battery and was a one time investment.

 

I carry an "analog GPS" also, for back up. Doesn't work well while driving, though.

 

Wait until they want to charge you a subscription to use the seat heaters...

 

Montero is coming back, so delay your purchase plans

 

Not anymore sir. Right now paying 15/month with 5GB data

Safety connect - $80/yr
remote start - $80/yr
GPS - $80/yr

Much thanks and with all due respect, not shopping at the moment, But I will keep you in mind when I'm shopping next time.

 

Oh yep, I think the later years of the 5th gen have something like that system where it’ll fall-back to the original map data without a data connection and subscription.

I still have an old Garmin GPS I got repaired (thanks PalmDr) that’s over a decade old, still getting map updates (and compatible with OSM data if need be) and it’s going to stick around.

 

No surprise tho, right? Seen many other manufacturers start subscription based systems for years now.

Recently, BMW had plans to roll out a subscription to use heated seats in their car. That's the level of bullshit we're working towards.

Too many subscriptions for everything these days.

For many people, it's breaking the bank for families between Netflix, Prime, home internet, mobile service, gaming, other apps, and now for the car. Too much.

 

Most of these things are unnecessary luxuries, though.

Granted, so are GPS, heated seats, and remote start.

Still, it seems ridiculous to have to keep paying to use something you paid for. The manufacturers are really getting creative about finding ways to squeeze every penny out of people.

 

Personally, I find it completely unacceptable to lock features behind subscription, especially when it is obvious that it could work without one. Sure, "don't use" is an option, but even better is "don't buy Toyota" especially considering that Toyota MSRPs are substantially above industry average.

Also, what level of "don't use it" are you going to tolerate? How about don't use cruise control or don't use audio system or don't use A/C? Because I can easily invent some BS reason why it would require data connection.

 

We have seen this in software, where Big Tech (e.g., Oracle) rent seeking behavior turned something that used to be one-time purchase into yearly subscription. They did it so they don't have to innovate, as you no longer have to provide compelling reasons for your customers to purchase a new version if they are subscribed. But at least in some cases there is on-going security patching that partially justifies such subscription.

As someone working in infosec, I can tell you that data connection to your car is a huge liability and whatever convenience it offers right now, it is not worth the downsides. It is only a matter of some time until some black hat finds a vulnerability and pushes out malware/ransomware, requiring recalls and visits to the dealership to fix it. Imagine being asked to pay bitcoin ransom or have your car blast max cabin heat and max heated seats in the middle of the summer heat. If everyone gets hit by this and there is recall it will take months for dealerships to get to your car and re-flash infotainment firmware.

 

currently paying $15 month for toyota remote connect on the 2023 tundra (which includes nav updates). the price differential between putting in an aftermarket remote start and a 5 yr plan was the same or slightly cheaper depending on brand (drone mobile was slightly higher for 5 yrs)

first year of subs for toyota was free, so technically you would need to compare to a 6 yr plan with aftermarkets.

 

Your new truck is able to communicate directly with your insurance carrier, or maybe it’ll contradict you on a future warranty claim. On it’s app, Toyota now gives you friendly reports on your driving habits, including cornering & braking, which I found unnecessary, at times not even accurate, and just pretty creepy.

It’s healthy to embrace new tech, but the sensors, applications, and cameras that we’re seeing stuffed (at our expense..) into new vehicles lately seem to disproportionately serve the insurance companies, advertisers, and manufacturers themselves, versus adding any great value to the overall ownership experience.

No surprise that Ford is patenting the ability to run ads into vehicles, b/c of course that’s what the customers are asking for, right?

 

lol if someone is so concerned about this, then you have to not have a cellphone, computer, online accounts, online banking, credit/debit cards, etc or anything related to the internet.

so i am pretty sure in the grand scheme of things a vehicle collecting data is the least of the issues.

you can also opt out of the data collection on toyota's now, but the flip side of that, some/all of the tech features will not work that you paid for that came with the vehicle.

 

What do you get with remote connect? I'm just curious.

 

https://www.toyota.com/connected-services/

 

Exactly. Keep in mind that taking your 4Runner offroading is considered extreme use that would void your warranty and insurance coverage. As such, infamous bump stops video of 6th Gen would also likely result into denied warranty claim as it happened offroad.

 

i have the go anywhere plan for $15 month which includes remote connect.

the biggest feature most people want is the remote connect, but they tie it into all the plans as a free add-on. it use to be a $8 feature by itself, but the company running the subs found out most people only wanted the cheapest plan they offered and switched all the plans to $15 and added the remote for free. lame move for the customer but a win for them

 

Looks like a nice feature for people who let their kids drive their vehicles so they can keep track of how they are driving.

I was curious which features, if any couldn't be duplicated with aftermarket products. It looks like $15 a month is pretty reasonable for people who will use those features.

 

Not sure your post makes sense in the context of slimy rent seeking business practices, or info security.

Data collection is the mechanism by which you can force rent payments schemes on many things that could be purchased and owned outright.

People that have come to enjoy having personal property have good reason to get annoyed at a society thats willing to give up the idea of ownership.

 

They key difference between selling a product and rent-seeking service is that in case of a product you compete based on merits of your product and in case of rent-seeking you optimize based on maximum extracted rent.

For clear example of this look at ink jet printers with their ridiculous proprietary cartridges and ink subscriptions. Clearly, they are not making best possible printer and compete based on that, they make cheapest possible printer, sell it at a loss and then try to squeeze as much as possible revenue from poor suckers that got one. Is that what you want future Toyota to be?

 

100%. Even from service providers the data is stored where your phone is. This data is used to troubleshoot cell tower bandwidth/ latency / drop outs. Needless to say about content use.
Even TV providers store data what ads did you skip, what ads did you watch longer. And of course the content searched and watched.

 

I can chose not to buy a cell phone, but need a vehicle to get to work, food and so on.

it’s complete and utter crap that you pay for a vehicle and then they want you to continue to pay for things like heated seats and what not. If you want to pay for internet connected things, that’s on you, but heated seats should not be an internet connected thing. When will we learn that online data and connected stuff is not safe.

 

you can also buy a vehicle that doenst have these issues, but i am guessing you dont want a vehicle 10-20 yrs old.

 

ford mydrive is pretty neat feature. i know businesses use it to speed limit workers in company vehicles. i know one YT septic guy has a story where they tried to ticket him going like 80-90 mph but its was speed limited to 70 via ford my drive.

 

NoDak be like:



(It’s not just what data is collected, but it’s precision and what entity gets that data but the concept of minimizing what one can control is clearly beyond you.)