Ignition Kill Switch?

With fuel pump kill switch even cloning fob won't work.

 

Sure, I just figured a Faraday box was easier and avoids additional wear and tear on the key fob buttons.

 

If it were me I’d want the simplicity of just dropping it in a container and going since it’ll be something done frequently.

 

Yes, because your n=1 sample totally nullifies that broken windows are #2 behind unlocked doors and windows or that nearly 75% of entries are when nobody is home to detect them. That's not a whattaboutism but it's certainly you missing the forest for the trees. It's about acknowledging that your security is only as good as the weakest link and focusing on the 1% scenario is typically a waste of resources.

For a starter or fuel pump cutout to matter, the thief already either has your key or has specifically targeted you with a relay attack to simulate possession of the key, is already inside your vehicle, and the factory anti-theft is disabled. These are not joy-riding teen scenarios, these are people looking to boost specific cars and it's not a scenario that draws a lot of witness attention because the door is open with no alarm. If someone can start the ignition, a starter cutout takes literally 3 seconds to circumvent with a screwdriver on 95% of vehicles. A fuel pump cutoff is more effective but again, they must have the ability to start your car for it to make any sense and it needs to be somewhere that is at least slightly inconvenient for you that won't be obvious to an experienced thief.

You're trying to stop something in progress at the very last step when other simple steps will shut down the same attack vector and more without the annoyance of a kill switch.

 

It’s my understanding that fobs can only be cloned when they are broadcasting a signal. And they are only broadcasting a signal when you are using them, in which case they couldn’t be in a faraday box (or pouch, more likely.)

Faraday boxes are not lined with lead. The lining can be any metal. It could be an Altoids box. Or aluminum foil. Or a metal mesh.

Lead linings are for nuclear radiation and Superman’s x-ray vision.

This works too. Here are the instructions from my 2022 manual.

 

Can someone more knowledgeable pls. outline the different types of kill switches? How invasive each is in terms of install and how each ranks in effectiveness? I’m looking at the ignition type right now. Least invasive and adequately effective against all but the experienced thief. I’m hearing the fuel version is more effective? The fuel variety also sounds like the most invasive and potentially the most harmful?

 

You basically wire them in-line with the relay signal for various critical systems. Starter is the least effective because you can always jump the terminals with a screwdriver and the rest are pretty much equivalent in effectiveness aside from a total computer cutout that disables pretty much any vector. Cutting the engine ignition system is the least desirable because you can foul plugs with the fuel that blows through while cranking.

If you're actually going to do this, buy the one linked above and toss it in the fuel pump slot (assuming it's the same size) and keep the original in the glovebox. I had several dozen occasions of homebrew cutouts going bad when I turned wrenches and you want it easy to fix when it does. Not that I minded getting paid 1.5 to splice a wire but you probably don't want to pay it.

 

Thanks for the explanation. If I understand this correctly there’s a danger of flooding the engine when it doesn’t start with an ignition kill switch? Does this also apply to the push button starters where you only have to depress the brake? I’ve got an appt. w/ my mechanic Monday so I want to make sure I understand. He’s a good mechanic, primarily works on Toyota trucks, rebuilds Landcruisers, gets good reviews and he’s telling me this is safe.

 

The volume of fuel in a modern vehicle is not huge and the volume of air that the engine pushes through is normally enough to prevent flooding, you just might have enough liquid fuel in the chamber to foul the spark plug tips which can lead to issues. When I say ignition, I mean cutting spark, not the ignition inside the vehicle.

With push starters, you're just using a computer module to trigger the relay instead of sending a 12v signal via a key cylinder switch. You can't really kill switch a push-button starter in any useful way because it's normally a CAN bus system. It's much smarter to switch a solid 12v signal wire.

 

I did this with my TJ. It will start but, it coughs and sputters until it's out of fuel in the rail.

 

Well like my Grand Cherokee, before fuel pump recall done; when relay shut off vehicle would not even sputter or start. No gas = no run.

 

Reconsidering this ignition kill switch from your responses. Assuming the thief doesn’t have your key or a clone of it how difficult is it to “hotwire” the 5th Gen? This excludes theft by the determined thieves via flatbeds, dollies, wreckers etc.

 

The pushbutton start is not possible in the traditional sense... the signal should be digital and it's just a signal to the computer so you don't even have the traditional wires there to hotwire. If you don't have a key, the only way that truck is starting is a relay attack where someone reads the key in your pocket and transmits to someone next to your vehicle (works like any radio signal extender). Without that signal and barring some vulnerability like Kia/Hyundai, the anti-theft system won't turn on the fuel pump and won't allow the starter to fire.

That's what I'm getting at above. A killswitch makes no sense to me when it allows someone into your vehicle with security disabled before it stops anything. If you're truly concerned you should get a Faraday pouch or use the disable sequence and make sure you don't keep your keys near the door or windows at home. It makes more sense to me to stop them at the door than hope they don't find a switch.

 

In this, the day of the ECU, to get an answer to your question you need the help of an electrical engineer and a software programmer.

 

Ok, it’s taken a bit or exchanges here but I’ll hold off on this kill switch. I wasn’t aware how the OEM anti-theft system in the 5th Gen works. Did not know it already controls the fuel pump and starter. I’m also reluctant messing with my fairly new truck’s electrical. Sounds like if you protect the key you’re good against all but the sophisticated professional thief.

 

Like I said, if they want your truck, they're getting your truck, and there's a reason all the top stolen cars/trucks are around 20 years old or Kia/Hyundai with the vulnerability.

 

Seems like a simple solution would be to interrupt the signal from the brake pedal to the ECU that tells the car your foot is on the brake when starting the car.

Bet you could install a switch to break that connection. Even with the key fob in your hand, you can’t start the car.

note: I’m not suggesting you drive around with your brake lights disabled. Break the signal when parked, re-connect and leave connected when starting & running.

 

They steal 4Runners using some sort of device they connect to ODB2 port probably with needle probes or to get in OBD port from behind or alligator clips if port lock is installed.

 

And this gets them past Toyota's Auto-Theft Engine Immobalizer? Does anyone know if communication between the ECU and OBD port is also prevented by the immobilizer? I use a scan tool on the OBD regularly myself and it only has access when ignition is “ON”.

 

For my 18 ORP (keyed ignition) I can start it without my foot on the brakes.
But you cannot shift it from Park to Drive unless the brake pedal is depressed.

 

With the current tech out there and the integrated computers they can access the immobilizer system via something as simple as a light bulb wire. There is no firewall between the various computers.
Once accessed they program their own fob and then it’s off to the races.

random article:
https://www.autobodynews.com/news/thieves-are-hacking-cars-through-headlights

kill switch is the best defense to an attack of this nature.

a club is easy to defeat. They can be broken, cut, or cut the steering wheel and take it off.

 

Just watched a video on this. It sounds like those with smart or maybe LED headlights are vulnerable? While the 2021 and up have LEDs I don’t consider the 5th Gen lights “smart”. Are they?

 

I don't think 4Runners have LED lights canbus connector. At least here's how my 4Runner was stolen. I had keys turned off and ODB2 port lock. Kill switch and physical devices (good quality ones) like blocking steering wheel shaft or pedals is way to go IMHO.

5th gen 4Runner stolen from driveway (rumble.com)

 

Security through obscurity is not security. There was not once in my prior auto career that finding a kill switch was an issue in 30 seconds because by design, it's as difficult for you to access as any thief. Unless you make it a hindrance for yourself, it's not going to be a hindrance for any thief.

CAN bus attacks are highly sophisticated in the world of auto theft and are not at all as common as articles like the above imply. The tooling and skill to pull off these attacks is well beyond a common thief and aside from a commonly published vulnerability like Kia/Hyundai that is remotely exploitable, you're into my world of dealing with actual computer hackers. Just keep your wireless/app communications disabled and you've pretty much shut down most common vectors that have been abused in the past.

 

BS! I lived in Fresno when I was going to college. This town is literally the car theft capital of the world! My Mazda pick-up was stolen once but fortunately I did get it back. I immediately installed a killed switch. It wasn't very well hidden but apparently hidden enough. The next five theft attempts were thwarted by that $2 switch. These scum bags resorted to taking other stuff out of the truck (which was next to nothing since I knew better) but they never got that truck again. Thieves want to get in and go as quickly as possible. They aren't going to fumble around looking for a small switch very long before they move on. It's an easy and extremely effective deterrent.

 

Damn 6 minutes and they were off. Wild stuff...

This video is definitely motivation to get some more theft deterrents in place... The question is what should I use...
I like the idea of a simple hidden switch as appose to a wheel lock or pedal lock.

I wonder how I could wire up an effective killswitch that can not be easily bypassed.

 

Yes, Multiple possibilities are/could be available via relays that one could construct that could disable multiple systems at once at the same time.

 

Mazda hasn't sold a truck in the US that had any sort of security so at that point, anything is better than nothing. I've already said they make sense on older vehicles when done correctly and I did that in my first car (1991 Camry) when it was stolen because it was the #1 stolen car for over a decade.

Videos like the one posted aren't casual thieves, that was people looking for a 4Runner who were geared to steal a 4Runner. A proper alarm with a shock or glass break sensor would have been more a deterrent than a switch.

Hiding switches isn't a great strategy, but wiring on-on switches in series so that you have to have the right combination turns it into a puzzle. That's how I did it in my first car and they were effective even being obviously visible.

 

I've seen this done to race cars and bikes in the past. Problem is I'm not much of a wiring guy.

The option from 41.22 is appealing. Plug and play and reversible.

I think the kill switch as well as turning off the key fob will be a decent combination.
As others have stated, it's not full proof... But this should be a good option to at least slow thieves down.

 

Start sequence for the war rig on Mad Max Fury Road. Number and color coded switches. 1, 1, 2 red, black etc. Super cool but alas electrical skills aren’t my forte.