Terrain difficulty that justifying LT cost/maintenance

I have a question for you all who frequent trails in Colorado. This question is about stability/safety of different types of aftermarket suspensions. I understand the mechanical differences in the general types. I have a 2010 trail edition I lifted, and I used it in flat muddy swamps in The south. Flexibility was not a concern. I visited Colorado in June. I drove my stock 21 tacoma trd offroad. I had a few pucker moments, and I had some minor dings/scrapes. I decided that I would not use my tacoma again in that situation. However, my wife has a 23 4runner, and I want to start collecting parts so that we can confidently visit western states. I am not interested in very difficult trails like black bear. I basically want to put some pizza cutters (more than likely) and a lift that is stable and safe for rocks. LT/marlin rclt seems overboard, but safety/Flexibility is my goal. I've never put our 4runners in an off camber position. I've watched YouTubers cross the steps at black bear, but I don't know if they are using quality lifts or even a spacer kit. I watched those vids as an extreme case. Again, not interested in crossing black bear. So the question I have is what suspension do you all use out west for Flexibility? A quality lift like OME? mid travel? Long travel? I don't want to spend a lot of money if I'm "taking a sledge hammer to a finish nail". However, safety is my main goal. Hope this makes sense.

 

2010 trail
Still running strong
My kid went to kindergarten in it...DD at college now
265k

 

Future adventure rig
23 trd offroad
Night rider...don't hassle the hoff!

 

Tincup pass/mount antero
Headed south over napolean pass. Had to turn around in dark timber. Ruts too big for 31 s.
Hayden pass/tried bonanza to salida, but wheelbase too long to make the turn. You know what turn If you've been there

 

I went to Colorado this summer and did Imogene, and Engineer pass from Ouray, going through the Mineral creek trail. The mineral creek section was pretty gnarly, with some degree of off-camber and full articulation happening at the same time in many spots.

I was very pleased at what a 2.5 lift with standard travel shocks (IMS) and slightly taller tires (285/70-17) will do. I never had any serious issues with approach/departure angles, or lack of articulation. I rarely kissed the sliders or skids, unless I asked for it.

I don’t think you need to overthink the suspension. A bit of extra height to improve angles and clearance goes a very long way, and is sufficient for most of the well known trails. Articulation is best at stock height, but you should be fine if you don’t go crazy with the lift height and if you get coils that are well matched to your weight.

Safety can’t be guaranteed by a suspension setup, since that’s more related to proper judgement using the machine within its limits. But I think it’s possible to make some aspects worse when you modify the suspension. For example, the higher you go, the more inherently unstable it will be. Too high, especially in the front, will also tend make front articulation worse. It’s all a fine balance, and that balance isn’t always ideal in every situation.

LT is absolutely overkill for driving imogene and engineer. I didn’t do black bear, but from what I know it’s not technically that challenging, (it’s just that you tend to die more with stupid mistakes). Not saying LT wouldn’t be nice though lol.

 

Good skid plates for any vehicle that plans to go off-road is a really good idea. Added insurance and easy to touch up with paint. Highly recommend that either way.

4Runner and Tacoma are pretty different with the rear suspension and wheelbase. They will act very different on trails, not sure if you have taken out the 4Runner on trails yet or not. 4Runner will flex nicely and be more nimble like a Jeep.

Mid travel suspension is what you want, narrowing down options can be tough. There are tons of options out there that range in cost and performance. The kits we sell are highly desired bc they offer a super nice ride for daily driving and will do great off-road. Personally, daily comfort is most important since I am doing that 98% of the time. I'm sure your wife would appreciate that as well. We custom valve Fox/King for a softer ride since they are originally built as race shocks. Ride Shocks is our own brand we just released that offers a lot of bang for your buck. Take a look at our 4Runner section and feel free to shoot over some questions. Happy to help narrow down some options for ya.

 

Honestly, I think you're fine with the stock suspension. It gives you the most balanced travel in front.

The 4Runner IFS has about 8" of travel, and ride height is right in the middle. So 4" up, 4" down. Lifting just moves the ride height within that range and unless you spend 10k on something like the Marlin, you're not adding any appreciable amount of travel with most lifts.

The lift essentially pushed the LCA and wheel hub down 2" to achieve the lift. So if you lift 2", you still have 8" of travel, but now it's 6" up, 2" down.

Another aspect of a lift is that a higher ride height equals higher center of gravity, which can lead to decreased stability.

I think if you're not planning on technical trails, just adding good stock sized AT tires and sticking with the stock suspension is the best bet for your application.

 

TLDR: don't lift it, put the right tire on it. A BFG AT KO2 255/75/17 or 265/70/17

I think you'll be fine with stock suspension. An inexpensive/mid-level lift isn't going to net much traction, and crossing any terrain is about traction.

My opinion is traction is your first and last consideration. That starts with the right tires. That'll get you 90% of the places you want to go, if you're not a "crawler" doing extreme trails.

Then you need to get enough ground clearance to clear the obstacles you expect to encounter, and the tire you expect to run. You don't have traction when your tires are in the air, whether you're high-centered, or just don't have much flex. So, you lift the vehicle only enough to clear the tire you want to run. If you need a 2" lift to put a 3" taller tire, that's what you do. You don't put a 5" lift to run a 3" taller tire. The tire is what gives you ground clearance, clearance under the lowest part of the vehicle. Tires raise everything, and suspension raises those things above the spring additionally. Meaning a 3" taller tire will raise your rear differential 1.5". A 2" lift means the rockers are 3.5 higher (2" + 1.5"). What you've done in that case is raise your center of gravity as well. So, again, I like the least amount of lift to clear the tires you want to run.

The problem with IFS, especially on a 4Runner, is when you lift it with a more conventional lift, you lose either up or down travel...or, rather, you shift the total amount of travel from up or down. So, in my opinion, it's best to leave it alone. The limiting issue on a 4Runner is the size of the wheel opening on the front fender/bumper anyway, it's not the amount of room up and down, but horizontal. A larger diameter doesn't really fit from the rear of the fender to the front bumper, so lifting doesn't really allow a larger tire anyway.

Bottom line, don't worry about a lift until you start going off road and find your limits. Otherwise you're chasing a question with an answer. Right now, a lift is the answer, but it doesn't answer the question about traction. So, figure out if where you want to go requires more than what you have, and then answer that question. It's probably a 255/75/17 or 265/70/17 BFG AT KO2

ETA: where you'll see the biggest gains with a lift, the rear. When you lift to f'up the rake, you look balance. When you lift the rear though, paired with the right shock, you increase articulation in the rear and that helps overall, the front and rear, to get over terrain. So, keep the rake, and lift the rear to match the front, if you're going to lift at all.

 

LT can create problems on tight trails.
Stock or mid travel is capable and fun.

 

I have a Tacoma with long travel and a well built long travel set up is going to perform far better than any mid travel system or lift. The two major cons (beyond price) are going to be parts availability and the maintenance schedule. You can't get a new triple bypass from an auto zone on a road trip and it'll require monthly service. Having a wider vehicle with adjustable suspension makes it a lot more stable. My Tacoma doesn't have sway bars and it drives flatter than my 4runner.

My 4runner can do most of the trails that my Tacoma can do with the comfort of knowing that If break something I can probably get it fixed the next day. A mid travel lift with 35s seems to be a good compromise between on road and off-road performance.

I live in Lake Tahoe, not Colorado but close enough.

 

I guess it depends on where in Colorado, but it's not very close.

 

https://youtu.be/l1tTelhdEiM?si=fMYDQ-ch8NwwNWTb

 

Speaking as someone who lives in Colorado and wheels basically every weekend, here’s my thoughts.

A lot of trails here will place you off camber and have you lifting wheels. That’s just the nature of Toyota IFS. IMO it’s the platforms biggest limiting factor. A quality extended travel coilover, UCA, and front sway bar delete is about as far as you can go in terms of suspension improvement while retaining stock geometry.
Specifically the front sway bar removal if you’re looking for improvements in off road stability and flexibility. After removing mine, I noticed substantial improvements in off camber stability with less of a tendency to lift wheels and get tippy on obstacles.

even with all that being said, a well planned mid travel kit will pale in comparison to a long travel kit. I’ve seen LT guys go through the same obstacles as long arm jeeps and 80 series land cruisers and keep all wheels on the ground, where as my front tires are reaching for the sky in the same spot.

what does all this mean for you? As you mentioned not wanting to do any difficult trails such as black bear, a LT kit is definitely overkill. The additional cost, maintenance, and lack of available parts of something were to break wouldn’t be worth it to me. For moderate trails, an extended travel coilover, UCA, and sway bar delete or disconnect will be more than enough.

 

Agreed.

OP, you've got sliders, and I think that would be my biggest worry (for the trails it sounds like you want to go on) so at least that is checked off. I like to research a bit about the trails before I go and see what the hardest obstacles are if I haven't been before. And just getting used to picking lines. (check out the Trails Offroad app if you haven't, very informative)

You can get good flex out of the rear, but the front will never have great flex without spending a good chunk of change.

Just a suggestion, but maybe consider an older Wrangler to flat tow out there. I had an '08 2-door that I picked up for a great deal, put flat fenders, 305's, and a lunchbox locker in the rear... no lift. That little shit went everywhere, was super simple, and I didn't have to worry about dents, etc. Break something? Tow it home and park it in the driveway until you can get to it