Need advice regarding throttle body work and warranty.

Purchased the car in 2022, and the only time it has been off the pavement is for simple dirt roads leading to campsites (twice in 2022/3). Post mid-2023, I have not done anything other driving to and from work. Starting last year I started getting code P2111, with a CEL and the message "Brake Override Malfunction" and decreased engine power. I had to turn the car off and the back on, and I would get full engine power on again, and the CEL would disappear after driving a certain distance (It disappeared right when I got to the dealer!). I took it to the dealer and they said the throttle body had dirt on it that was causing it (stock filter, stock everything BTW), so they cleaned it which I paid out of pocket for.

Since then the code has come on 3 more times, and I've narrowed it down to how it happens. It happens when I'm just creeping along on the brakes without throttle input. One time, stuck in traffic. One time in the drive through line for food, and just yesterday in the long line to drop off someone at the airport. Nothing scarier than the car suddenly going into limp mode while in traffic queue at LAX. Thankfully, I was able to turn the car off while dropping off my passenger, and my engine power was back after I turned the car back on and head home.

I took it to the dealer this morning, and had it inspected and they said the throttle body needs to be replaced, but it's not covered by warranty, so it will be out of pocket as well which comes to around $600+. 4runner has less than 11k miles on it. I called corporate and they said they stand by the dealer's assessment that the issue is caused by an outside influence (because they referenced the past issue where I took it in and there was some dirt on the throttle body) so not covered by warranty. The only way to get it covered is to get it assessed by another dealer and see if they approve. So my question is whether this should be covered or not?

On another note, how the heck is the stock air filter so useless? Why would it just be letting dirt through like nothing? They sent me pictures, but to be honest it looked pretty minor compared to other dirty throttle body pictures I have seen on here.

P.S. Don't be fooled by my avatar. That's an RC truck, and all my hardcore offroading is done in 1/10 and smaller scale model vehicles.

 

What is wrong with it that wouldn't be resolved by cleaning vs. replacing?

 

By dirt are they referring to the black coking that normally builds up on the throttle bade and bore. Seriously doubt that would cause this. Should it be cleaned as maintenance yes. But as it builds up the computer would normally compensate unless it's had a battery disconnect and needs to relearn. Stock air filter is more than adequate. More than likely a throttle position sensor or throttle blade drive motor problem. But it's a '22 and not covered under warranty? I would have thought it would be covered either under powertrain or emission warranty.

 

It's a 2022 with less than 11k miles? Is it out of warranty by time?

It's probably an electronic issue, not necessarily a throttle body issue. If it's because of a dirty throttle body, it wouldn't go away with turning off the vehicle and turning it back on. It's either dirty, or it's not. So, it goes into limp mode because a sensor is saying it's dirty, or something else (the code is for the throttle actuator, that the throttle body isn't closing, right?). If that's the case, it seems it would need to be cleaned, or it needs a new sensor because it's an electronic issue, not actually a dirty throttle body. Or, the actuator is not serviced separately. So, if it's not covered by warranty, which I'm not sure why, then I'd swing by the local auto parts store and buy some throttle body cleaner (I'd actually buy a fuel injection system cleaner, like 3M) and a couple sensors (MAF/TPS, etc.).

I will tell you though, I had this happen on another vehicle and I had to replace the throttle body. The sensor(s) were bad, which meant it wouldn't open or close properly. The mechanical portion of the throttle body worked fine, but the sensors were part of the unit, so it had to be replaced as a complete assembly. It may be the case here.

 

Throttle body and fuel injection has been cleaned already by this dealer the last time I brought it in, and the code has come back twice since then. They're now saying I should replace the throttle body, which I'm fine doing since I've read that others have had it replaced under warranty for this kind of issue. My problem is this dealer is saying it's not covered, and I'm not getting any help from corporate either since the rep just says "we stand by the dealer".

I just want to know if this is something that is supposed to be covered. They're saying the light trail road to a campground is deemed "offroading" and voids the warranty on this component.

 

They need to document that, which they may have. You then pay for the service and file a small claims suit. They have to "prove" the loss is due to something not covered, or that the part/labor is not covered due to...

Or, ask the service manager to explain it in more detail. Ask specifically, what is the failure and how was it caused. They need to provide a causal relationship, not a casual relationship btw j/k. They need to show/draw the "line" between the failure and the cause.

Them: It was caused by a dirty throttle body.
You: How did it get dirty?
Them: Dirt made its way from the road to the throttle body.
You: How, since there is a filter between the road/air and the throttle body. Explain.

Or...
Them: It is a dirty throttle body.
You: What part of the throttle body is dirty?
Them: It's not really the throttle body, but the actuator that failed, showing a code for failure of the throttle body to close. We tried to clean it last time, hoping that it would take care of it, as a low cost and most likely fix. Since it came back and it's already been cleaned we did more diag.
You: So, it's a dirty throttle body, or a failed actuator?
Them: It's a failed actuator, which is an electronic component that isn't covered. Electronic parts are not covered, and this sensor isn't serviced separately. We have to replace the throttle body assembly.
You: Oh, thanks, here's my credit card.


It's a pretty easy process (small claims).

 

The basic Toyota warranty on my '23 is 36 months/36k miles. I'd be surprised if the '22 were different.

 

The throttle body itself is easy to change.







if it's not covered by warranty buy one and install it yourself. I never heard of one going bad especially with such low miles.

 

Well, they are saying the dirt got in and caused the sensor to fail. So if the sensor isn't covered, and the whole assembly needs to be replaced to replace it... I'm SOL?

Here's a picture they sent me from my first visit months ago.


This is what the technician wrote down this morning after inspection

 

what are they saying that pictures shows?
it just looks like a CLEAN throttle body...

do you have other dealers nearby?

and how does driving up a dusty road...cause a sensor to fail? if the sensor failed, how does replacing the throttle body fix the failed sensor?

 

My post was just an example.

But if that's the case, and if I understand you correctly, they are saying a sensor failed because it got dirty due to excessive dirt and it is not be covered. That makes more sense. I don't think it's true, but I think they can deny the warranty that way. I'm not sure if the sensor is part of the assembly, and not serviced separately, but that too could be, and the entire assembly would then not be covered. I think I'd have them explain it again, I'd argue a little, pay it, tell them they lost a customer, then take them to small claims. It only costs $50 here, plus your time, but they may reimburse you instead of showing up.

 

I do have other dealers nearby. The Toyota Corporate rep said to have it checked at other dealers and if it can get approved it will be approved, so that's what I'm going to do.

I'll have to look into the small claims process in my area. I'm going to get it looked at by other dealers first though.

 

I would also check some simple things all related to the throttle body. Change air filter, check MAF again, make sure air box seats correctly when all keepers engaged, and all hoses are sealed correctly, and no cracks or loose clamps on any air train items, check penetrator at inside fender for obstruction. Have a different shop do this. 11k is brand spanking new, so is that TB pic. Hold Toyota's feet to the fire.

 

Great video. Here's how to clean a throttle body correctly and not cause any additional issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B-a8WJtd8w&ab_channel=TheCarCareNut

 

Can this dude even type? DEBRI INSTERNAL

 

you seen the one car wizard did on cleaning throttle body?



I've never reset my ECU like he did after cleaning, usually just drive it...sometimes take battery cable off

do you guys reset your ECU after cleaning throttle body?

 

I think that tech is typing English pretty well,
for an Albanian who's only been in the country 23 days

 

If you have a capable scan tool you can reset the learned value for idle speed to factory setting. Otherwise drive it and it will learn on it's own it just takes longer.

 

Get a new sensor and call it a day

 

It's probably built into the throttle body. Nice way to sell a $50 item for $650.
But I do say it's a shitty way of declining what should be a warranty issue.

 

Replace it and move on

 

For reference, here is dirty. I drive in dusty construction sites all day, every day.

 

That's crazy. 176K on my 2013 and I can't say the TB has EVER been cleaned. I've owned it since 80k and I haven't gotten around to it yet myself.

I have a hard time believing "dirt" caused this issue, unless in a previous service they didn't connect the intake correctly, allowing dirty air to bypass the filter.

 

One question I have on visiting multiple dealers in an attempt to find one that will provide warranty work - do other dealers have access to the information provided by the scumbag dealer who is denying the warranty coverage?

 

Yes, and CarFax usually gets it too.
One plus to that is a good dealership can gain a regular customer by fixing it correctly.

 

I'm suspicious that the dealer broke it while cleaning it.

 

Dealer taking OP for a ride. Nothing in this story adds up, especially pictures of a clean throttle body as supposed evidence of the issue.

 

I had to take my 4runner to three different dealerships before I found one that would actually perform warranty work. I was initially told toyota warranty does not cover defects in craftsmanship and that the electrical system in the car is not covered.

Good luck. Toyota warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

That's how I feel about it, and that's why I denied the request for the go ahead to complete that work. What has me really angered is that they basically screwed me over if their assessment goes on record and denies me any warranty work regarding those components or anything else related in the future. What's to stop them from saying this new "X" that failed is because of the previous "Y" that happened and is not covered.

Tustin Toyota - avoid!

 

*added to my list*

T in Texas Official List™ of Toyota dealers to avoid
-Toyota of Fort Worth
-Toyota in Ottawa Canadiastan
-Tustin Toyota

backpacker makes a good point, maybe these guys broke your throttle body...now trying to get you to pay for it

You said you drove yours up a dirt road to a camp ground...they said not covered due to 'offroading' sounded alot like BS right there