You’ve built your rig, take a trip, and then complain about the trails being too rough…

Just some perspective from my endless hours of scouring through YouTube videos of trail reports…

I travel for work which puts me in hotel rooms often. While on the road, I spend a lot of time browsing through the forums and YouTube for new trail reports for places I haven’t done in a while or places I’ve never done. One thing I have noticed over the past couple of years is the amount of new YouTubers with their “offroad” channel and the amount of complaining they do about trail conditions being too rough. Many of these people are in Jeeps but there are quite a few Toyota peeps doing these videos as well.

I don’t get it, they’ve spent a lot of money building their rig to be capable of handling these trails but bitch and moan on their videos about the trails. One specific video I watched today was some guy in a Gladiator on 40’s running Taylor Pass near Aspen, which I’ve done several times, and while it is rocky,

it baffles me to no end on what these people’s expectations actually are for these trails. Is it just lack of experience or do they really just think that all roads are maintained to “all vehicle” standards?

My group of friends have done several trips in the Appalachians where we’ve openly invited others from the regional forums and there have been numerous times where someone with a very well built rig will get to the trail and back out.

What is the point in wasting all the money on your build if you aren’t going to use it?

Anyone else have similar experiences or noticing the same?

 

My only complaint is impatient SxS drivers who get pissy because it takes me 10 seconds to let them by.

 

Actually no. I haven't seen that at all. I've seen the opposite, people that build a rig with 40" tires that have a cakewalk through a tough trail and then complain about how easy it is. Used to be people did things on 31" tires and weren't afraid to scratch the skid plates. For years now I keep reading/hearing people complain because their powder-coated diff skid got scratched because they were trying to drive over a 3-foot boulder and their front-facing camera didn't provide enough detail to show the boulder had rough edges, or their "RT" tires didn't hold a line when they were 30-degrees off camber. Or, their 40" tires got loud on the highway and threw gravel down the side of their rig on the way home.

 

Yeah, the SXS crowd sucks.

 

Well, if they’re powder coating their skids, they should stay in the mall parking lot. Krylon rattle can FTW.

 

Drama gets clicks!

I did no complaining getting to camp at Taylor Lake on 32's in a Durango 21 years ago.

 

I don't have the pictures to back up the story but I did the Black Bear Pass Road into Telluride in in 1976 with my '75 Half ton short bed 4X4 truck with stock "snow" tires. Part rain,part snow in September. A great trip with no other vehicles in sight. Except for a couple pretty short corners the road was fun and engaging. That is to say,a bit squeeky at times with some butt puckering and no help in the neighborhood.

 

I think most people are living in a fantasy and when it comes down to it they are really scared to mess up their rig. I've taken people even just slightly off road and the overwhelming feedback is usually - arent you afraid you're going to mess up / roll / ruin your car?

and i think most of that is lack of just plain experience and what we see with youtubers. They want a ride, they want a channel, they want a following, they want to monetize it, but they don't really want real danger or probability to mess up their car and most people lack the experience to know that they arent in any danger. That and they are probably thinking that they cant mess up their rig because there goes their youtube channel.

 

That makes a ton of sense. Well stated.

It drives me insane when I see shit that says hardcore in the title and it’s something like Ophir Pass and they’re all sitting around at their “glampsite” talking about how they all almost died.

 

Another version of this are the Youtubers that claim to have "discovered" various archeological sites, either by searching Google Maps or by sheer happenstance. Then as the video proceeds, it depicts some well-known place that has a commonly-accepted name, often in a National Monument or designated Wilderness Area. Usually you can see BLM warning placards as the camera pans around, or peers into a ruin. A lot of these places get so much traffic that permits are required to control excrement accumulation in camping areas. There are some Youtubers who I just won't watch because of their absurd exaggerations and misrepresentations.

 

Yeah, there’s a lot of them that I can’t stand to watch. There was one guy a few years ago that use to be a 4Runner guy, Jason Koertge, who had a ton of people swinging from his nuts thinking he was the Lord of the 4Runners. Most of his YouTube shit was overhyped and overdramatized garbage. Never saw him do anything that could really be considered actual difficult wheeling, but to hear him tell it he was doing insanely hardcore stuff.

 

Yeah, and wtf was wrong with his neck?

 

Yes dude, a thousand times yes. I work with a guy like this, and have run into a hundred other ones at random gas station conversations and such. I would wager there's a lot of those people on this very site, in fact.

Most people don't have the self awareness to know that they are that person, sadly.

 

Couldn't agree more with everything that has been said.

I think our new generations including mine, have gotten way to spoil and we want immediate gratification and "easy" stuff. Imagine the miners, farmers, and folks that lived 100 yrs ago in those trails and regions, trying to get up and down by foot and mules. No 4x4, no lockers, no gadgets and crap, just them. Those folks are the heroes in my mind.

 

Exactly! Minimalism is a valuable skill that many folks lack these days. I learned as a kid to make it work with what you’ve got.

 

Like it was said in an earlier post: Drama gets clicks. Just look at people like Hoovie & Whisltin' Diesel. They're nice dudes, but even they admit to putting negative things on their video link just to get clicks. Clicks lead to better ad revenue. It's a game that almost all YouTubers play to get paid. I don't fault them for it, much....

But I do laugh when I see their $100k "overlanding" vehicle, especially when I see it get fucked up. They spend all that money on shit to make their rig look cool, but fail to realize that all that crap is worthless, if the driver doesn't have the off roading skills.

 

This right here!

Function over form isn’t a thing with these people! It’s the lights before lockers mentality and “how much shit can I attach to my rig” or the people that daily their shit like they’re leaving to go on a trip that instant.

I am guilty of my 4R being trip ready all the time, but that’s because it’s a dedicated trail rig and I don’t daily it so it stays loaded up for the most part.

I love posting open invites on the local FB groups for the trips I take just to see all the local “hardcore” wheelers comment with “oh man, I’d love to go but maybe next time” every time. I’m heading out to CO and UT in July for 2 weeks and posted an open invite and the amount of people who commented with “that’s too far” or “why? We have great off-roading here in Florida” blows my mind. And…no, we don’t have any off-roading in Florida that’s good unless you enjoy deep mud, chicks on meth, and STD’s.

 

I lived in Central Florida in the late 80's to early 90's, (and I feel like I got paroled when I finally left that state!). When I lived there, we never went off roading, we only went "Muddin", because that's all we had. Mud. Lots and lots of mud. We had tons of fun too. Our trucks/jeeps were beaters, so we beat the shit out of them. We never saw anyone with a nice/new SUV or truck, ever. They all had dents, dings, road rash, seriously faded paint and paint chips. One dude had a truck with NO BED, it was just a single cab and an exposed frame. Oh, and the cab of that truck? Rusted like a mother fucker!

We'd take an old Jeep or 70's model Chevy truck on mud bogger tires and 15 inch wheels. They were chrome Alcoa's, of course! The Jeep or Chevy had no frills at all, except 40 inch tires. We didn't even use winches. We would bring a long ass chain with us and pull the other guy out if he got stuck.

I'd love to take a trip up to UT/CO/Wyoming/Montana/SD one day and hit all the trails, but (here comes my inner Bill Lumberg) Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I'm gonna have to go a head and cancel on you. My pimped out SloRunner is needed in the parking lot at the local Kroger!

 

There’s a documentary out there on one of the streaming services, can’t remember which, but it’s called Red White and Wasted and it’s about the Florida Mudding Culture. Pretty much solidifies any assumptions about the “Florida Man”. Shit man, you might be in the documentary somewhere as it’s all about Swamp Ghost in Orlando in the late 80’s and early 90’s. LOL.

It’s an interesting watch though. Shows how it’s gotten away from what you’re talking about and turned in to a shit show.

 

I don't need a show to tell me how bad Florida really is. I lived it. It might be why I have PTSD. But I blame most of that on the Army. I would go on about how bad Florida is, but I'm worried my words will get me a 30 day ban from this site, so I'll restrain myself.

On the subject of glamping: I am guilty as hell. Here's why; when I was in the Army we would bivouac a lot. I do mean a lot. Every where I went, I would walk/march. Thus my hatred for hiking. Then we'd bivouac; thus my desire to go glamping. I endured enough! I want a soft bed, a/c & heat, a toilet/shower and a mother fucking tv with satellite!

I will proudly admit I'm a glamping superhero.

 

I've built the pretty Runner but am looking forward to the first real trail damage so I can sign it with sharpie. Given how our off road plans more often involve dirt bikes, I'm afraid it will be a while. But I wonder how often people on the street look at it and think, "what a dork who has a nice truck he doesn't want to damage."

 

I'll admit that it took me awhile to get used to things and start really using the armor. I backed out of tons of trails when I was starting out. I still do if I'm solo and foresee a shitty recovery situation. But, I've never been upset about how difficult, or easy a trail was. I just take note of which ones to do again and which ones to skip.

I do recall running across a random couple in a Taco on 35's who were nervous about doing things some of our group were doing on stock tires. They ended up joining us and we all had a good day.

I don't watch many youtubers, so I can't comment on the OP much. But, I definitely agree that it's silly to build the shit out of something and then only drive it on groomed gravel roads, or whatever. I bought mine for off-roading, personally. I'm certainly not thr most hardcore guy I know, but I've been getting my money's worth!

 

Oh I get it completely. I’m originally from Texas and have been trapped in Florida since I got stationed here in 96. I hate this fucking state. I keep telling myself 5 more years until my youngest graduates and I’m out.

 

I try to get along with the other off-road communities as much as possible. But, these guys do tend to be a pain in the ass.

Last year, or maybe 2 years ago, a bunch of us were on a trail run, and came across a couple of UTV's pulled to the side, looking at a mud pit. We just slowly crept through (it was more rocky than muddy) and kept moving. Later, we got called out on FB for being on "their" trails. Nothing better than bitching about others breaking the law, when you obviously don't know the law.

Just last weekend I visited an area we used to frequently hit, but haven't much lately due to the main trail being closed. I stopped by some of the trail entrances, and saw tire tracks going in and out, despite posted signs. And, most of them were UTV tracks (judging by tread pattern and track width). The best part is that this is a trail where ATVs and utvs were not permitted to begin with. They got shut down due to concerns about erosion, and you can take a wild guess which vehicles do the most damage when they're ripping through there at full speed.

 

Oh yeah, they’re horrible.

I watch a lot of Matt’s Offroad Recovery and Trail Mater on YouTube and the amount of SXS recoveries they do is insane and some of their commentary about them is pretty good.

 

My favorite thing about the incident a few years ago was that they said that it was a good thing they were stopped at the time, because otherwise they would have crashed into us. Like, how fast are you going that you have no control of your vehicle? And, with the way these trails wind around, there's little visibility in some areas. It sounds like those guys are just plain reckless.

It's too bad, because I really think some of those things are cool. I have had good interactions with some of them. We've even had guys on UTV's stop to watch us occasionally because they couldn't believe we would run those trails in our daily drivers.

 

A lot of his deal with those videos was more about “filmaking” and video production. It just happened to have a 4runner in it. It kinda worked to maintain interests when the videos themselves weren’t interesting in terms of off-roading content.

There’s a pretty wide variety in how folks use their 4runners “off road”. Personally I love the idea of a traveling vehicle that doesn’t have to care as much about trail conditions. The idea of going anywhere without the vehicle being the limiting factor. I was never interested in rock crawling for rock crawling’s sake, but using it tonit’s potential means I need to learn how to drive my 4runner in challenging off-road situations.

I’m extremely lucky to have found a group of friendly folks here and at tacoma world that I could wheel with. That let me learn about off roading from others, and exposed me to different to people with different risk tolerance and experience. I actually went to a “silly” off road park because of them and ended up falling in love with it lol. After a few years of hanging out with the group, I know a lot more about my 4runner, but I’m still at the “pansy” level of off roading and risk tolerance. And that’s ok, since my 4runner isn’t a beat up 80s rust bucket 4x4, and I use it for more than just play. But those experiences helped me understand way more about the limits of my 4runner.

A lot of these youtubers are trying to make a living with their video content. The 4runner is their cash cow, so of course they’re going to be a bit more hesitant. Mix that with limited actual experience, and you get what you get.

 

I understand using your vehicles as intended, and I understand not letting fear of scuffing your paint keep you from enjoying its capabilities.

But I will never understand intentionally damaging or “beating the heck” out of your equipment. I work hard for the dollar and I don’t waste my money.

 

If you purchased your vehicle and built it to use off-road, meaning it’s capable to handle obstacles the driver can handle, it’s not “beating the heck” out of it. I don’t believe that anyone truly intends to damage their vehicles, although there are some out there that do dumb shit. Vehicle damage is always possible when wheeling, but that’s why it’s a “pay to play” activity and there’s a lot of folks out there that don’t understand that.

I see so many people on the trails that have no clue how to use the skinny pedal properly. They’re out there breaking CV axles on stuff they shouldn’t be breaking them on, using lockers when they shouldn’t be, spotting when it’s not needed and not spotting when they should. Lots of folks in this game that haven’t taken the time to learn the activity. They just buy it, have someone else build it, and don’t take the time to truly know their rig or learn the proper way to wheel it.

 

It's just a different level of involvement. Some people are willing to allocate significant budget to creating and maintaining vehicles with advanced capabilities and really putting the their skills and vehicles to the test. That's definitely not me, but I get where it comes from.

My own use case is getting to places I can't reach in a "normal" vehicle while still serving as a daily driver and handling long road trips. I don't push the envelope unless there's a big incentive. I also don't complain about conditions that exceed my vehicle capabilities or my driving comfort level. There are things I feel I can do safely, some marginal things, and some things that are beyond my self-imposed limits. That's just how it is. I can extend the boundaries with investments of time and money as I choose. I'm out there to have fun. Whether anyone else thinks what I'm doing is sufficiently fun doesn't matter unless they're sitting in the passenger seat.