5th gen vs 6th gen and why

I hope so too, but I think what we are seeing is Mercedes-like pivot for Toyota. Mercedes used to be a high-quality brand, with over-engineered cars, very long model runs, and that were famous for going forever. Then Mercedes pivoted to selling high-tech luxury cars with short model runs that as a consequence were less than reliable. Then they ended up cutting costs on parts quality to keep costs down, resulting in further decreased reliability. Consequently, Mercedes of today are unfixable once they age. While they may ended up selling more cars, fewer people have any bran loyalty and even fewer attempt long-term ownership. Meanwhile, old-school Mercedes are still on the road as parts of various collections.

I am afraid that Toyota is going to sell Mexico-made EPA-compliance cars in US, while not offering Hilux and similar vehicles we associated with Toyota quality. This means they will load with tech and gizmos and try upscale their target market. As most people are not automotive enthusiasts, it will work for a while.

 

While they may be 'ridiculously expensive', that would ultimately be proven through decreased sales. Vehicles in general are overly expensive in my view, but my view means nothing if everyone is able to keep selling cars at these prices. At the moment, what Toyota is offering, people are buying. If that changes, I'm sure Toyota will adapt.

 

very true. Love to advertise their “warranty” but then drag you through the gauntlet and try to make you give up to do any warranty work and fix it properly.

recently had to have my wifenew rav4 have a hinge on trunk fixed b/c door wasnt closing properly and was causing the paint to come off and took at least 10 phone calls and 5 trips to the dealership and about 4 months to get it fixed. They never follow up with you and you have to be on topof them and they hope you just give up and go away.

 

Yup, you hit that nail on the head. BMW and Mercedes built cars up until the late 80’s/early 90’s that routinely went 200-300k miles with just standard maintenance.

I would hate to see Toyota go the same route. Problem is, like the proverbial frog, you won’t know until it’s too late.

 

Ironically, the time frame you speak of is exactly when Toyota entered the luxury market with the Lexus LS. It forced the Germans to change the way they built their cars and not for the better. Since everything is cyclical, Toyota will be on the receiving end sooner or later.

 

LEXUS

The Lexus luxury car brand was launched in 1989 as a division of Toyota.

However, the Lexus brand began in 1983 when Toyota Chairman Eiji Toyoda started Project F1, or Flagship One, to challenge his engineers, designers, and technicians to create a new luxury vehicle that would surpass the best in the world. The project involved market research in Laguna Beach, California to study the lifestyles of wealthy Americans. After several years, Lexus debuted at the 1989 North American International Auto Show in Detroit with the launch of the Lexus LS 400 and the ES 250. Lexus vehicles are known for their reliability and luxury, and are designed to capture the needs and emotions of their customers.

By comparison - INFINITY

1985 - an elite group forms quietly within Nissan. Its purpose: to build a new division of performance luxury vehicles. One that would challenge the prevailing American and European luxury brands with more human-centric design.

1987 - INFINITI name is born. With this development, a feeling of forward movement takes hold. To embody it, a badge is designed depicting two central lines into the horizon.

1989 - INFINITI launches with 51 dealers in the United States. There are 2 available models, the convention-defying Q45 sedan and the performance-oriented M30 coupe. With the debut of the INFINITI Total Ownership Experience, we quickly gain recognition as leaders in customer satisfaction.

 

Oh wow, 4” longer, despite worse cargo space and inability to sleep in the back. This is my first huge vehicle, but for many people it’s not even huge (subjective)…that 4” increase is significant in my book. This is my first vehicle where I find myself actually passing up on some parking spots, I’ve never done that before. Adding more length can’t help lol

 

According to The Car Care Nut, 2005-2008 Corollas are one of the most reliable (and simple) Toyotas ever made, an absolute gem! Another FYI - he says that 1998-2002 Corollas are quite possibly the WORST Toyotas ever made. That guy is great, his insights are way more detailed than the more usual general platitude of “Toyotas are awesome”

 

It's not really about you, the individual saving money on fuel, it's that it works well for Toyota's CAFE numbers when they sell hundreds of thousands of these a year.

 

well no one is buying a suv/truck to save money on gas no matter the gen period.

the only way to save money on gas is to never buy a new vehicle. keep the one you have now (especially if its paid off). you would have to make up the savings on mpg and the cost sunk into buying a new vehicle which most people do not take into account when comparing mpg.

i only track mpg on my 4runner and tundra as a geez whiz feature, not to save money on gas.


and getting rid of a 4runner or tundra/sequoia for a prius will still take years to recoup the saving since you also have to factor in the cost differential on the new prius.

i learned that years ago when i traded my 2004 4R v8 for a sonata. the gas savings would take years, but i also had to factor in the cost of the new vehicle which added years on top of the gas saving ROI

 

Yes, we know. I'm responding to a previous poster that mentioned the benefit to themselves of the additional fuel mileage.

Reading for comprehension. It's easy to skip important details and miss the point.

 

Let’s take out BMW from the sentence and it’s true. There are tons of 30-40 years old Mercedes-Benz on the road all over the world but maybe a few very rare BMW from the same era.

 

+1... I always chuckle when people have a truck and then they go and buy a second "economy" car to save money on gas for their commute. If they actaully did the math.

This is like the people who like to virtue signal by trading their Prius in for a brand new Tesla and then 3 years later trade the Tesla for a Rivian or Lucid or whatever the latest fad is. .


I consider myself fairly pro-environment but pretending that the manufacture of the car itself is zero impact is just plain dumb.

 

You've never owned an E30 or E28, obviously. I've maintained several 300k+ e30's, my personal 533i went 425k, and I've maintained several 535i's that were in the 275k range. None of them had ever had anything other than standard maintenance.

 

Hehe, I have a corolla from the 2005-2008 range, manual transmission, manual everything, no even cruise control, with under 75k miles. At 20 years old, it is dead quiet driving down the road with no rattle or squeaks. Interior still looks brand new.

I am certain it will out live me.

 

The E30 was fine but that’s about it. BMW was never known about reliability. Maybe they were reliable compared to the American cars but in Europe they were never on the same shelf with Mercedes. Mercedes-Benz W116 (1972-1979) W126 (1979-1990), W123 (1975-1985) W124 (1985-1996) and even their R107 (1971-1989) were all the most reliable and safest vehicles in those days. The W126 is still the best ever made car in the world and lot of them are still in the road. Count the old BMWs in CA or Palm Beach FL. You won’t need 2 hands.

 

Thanks everyone! I was wondering if spending an extra $50K to get slightly better fuel economy would cost less than not spending $50K and getting slightly worse fuel economy. I appreciate everyone who helped clear that up.



Edit: I was being sarcastic, and apparently way too subtle.

 

missing /s tag

 

No such thing as buying a car and saving money. They are a money waster at all times.

 

^^^^^ This!

 

Yeah, I know.

I was poking fun of the posts pointing out that a car payment would negate any money saved due to better fuel economy. As if anyone who understands basic math couldn't figure that out.

Apparently I was being too subtle.

 

Way too subtle. To the point where you sounded serious.

 

The only time a car saves money is if you drive it for a very long time.

I bought my 2006 Civic Si new and drove it for 318k miles. Bought for $19,990 and sold for $4500. No repairs, not even a water pump. Except for routine maintenance, brakes, and tires.

That car saved money in the long term compared to other cars. But luck plays a role. Had I bought a Prius I would’ve saved more money, but luck has to play a role. One repair on the Prius and it would’ve negated any savings it gave over the Si, plus its headache.

So, it only saves money over the alternative. And you will never know if that alternative would’ve been a better car with less repairs, luck plays a role, thus, negating savings. Hell you can buy two Prius of the same year and one will save you more money than the other if one breaks less than the other. Again, luck will play a role.

 

Really?

Apparently we need a sarcasm emoji.

 

I don't consider myself particularly smart, and definitely not well educated. But, I can't imagine anyone not being able to figure out that they're never going to save more on fuel than the purchase price of a brand new 4Runner. I guess the ability to understand basic math isn't as common as I thought.

 

Nope they don't save you money

 

Sad thing is a lot of people are NOT that good at basic math. I know people who have trucks that told me they bough a second economy car just to save "money" commuting. And they maintain both.

These are people with college educations

 

No, I got your drift right away.

 

Haha!