Modern Car Sizes

Is it just me or do others feel the arms race by manufacturers to grow car size with each generation to be obnoxious. When I walk around the neighborhood there are some awesome examples of 1st and 2nd gen tacomas and 1-3rd gen 4Runners and it’s really crazy how big the latest versions are. I sort of felt the same way when 5th gen 4Runner came out and it just won’t stop. In 20 years everyone is gonna be driving a damn semi dually wheeled commercial monstrosity. My biggest gripe with the latest gen’s isn’t the tech, it’s the dimensions that make them tough to drive through trails, park or maneuver in cities.

 

Blame CAFE standards and politicians who don't understand fuck-all about what they're legislating. Economy standards are based around vehicle footprint so as they became more difficult to meet, compact pickups and cars became midsize and the midsize became full size. At this point consumers have a preference for larger so there's no going back.

 

Our 2nd gen weighs a ~1,000# less than our 5th gen and is narrower and has a FAR better approach angle and better break-over angle, it only lacks on the departure angle. I love the 5th gen but it is an over-weight tank compared to the old one, 1,000#, size/angles make a big difference on the trail.
Now the 6th gen is even heavier, wider and longer than the 5th which sours me.

 

A side by side is even lighter than the 2nd gen.

 

Yes, I have one, 1,500#. It is a completely different class of vehicle.

 

It has nothing to do with cafe standards or politicians and everything to do with what consumers want. We have demanded bigger and bigger vehicles. People complain about lack of leg room and so car makers make them bigger and bigger and bigger.

 

Could it be that it is the silent method of everyone giving the finger to government mandates?

 

In the US we have always had big vehicles, but in many cases they are getting smaller depending on what years you are comparing. Old ford LTD II is about as big as a Ford 150 of today (standard bed). 1974-76 Cadillac Fleetwood sedan, measuring 252.2 long, thats bigger than a full size F350 of today.

Some real info: https://www.brakeforit.com/culture/largest-vehicles-ever-made/

 

No, it is a not-silent response to marketing that every American household needs a pickup truck, minivans are lame, and the current off-roading is popular (at least the look) trend.

Edit: pickup trucks also used to be a bargain, cheaper than an equivalent SUV, so they are an easy sell for families or people who want more space, even if they don't tow or need the bed.

 

+1 for me on the not so silent protest. I'm eating the gas prices now, but I will not have a politician that rides in a Suburban limousine or some other high-end fancy car dictate to me what I can or cannot own and drive.

 

How about a proper citation? This was a known defect of the standard 15 years ago and I've already acknowledged that people want more space. If that was the sole reason, there was always larger vehicles available for consumers to buy. The limiting factor was always money but most cars have grown cheaper over time adjusting for inflation so you get more car for the same money. Making the vehicle bigger was more desirable than making it more efficient when the vehicle cost is relatively similar. Two birds, one stone.

 

Regardless of the reason, it is annoying to me. Yes, once upon a time the typical mid-size car or mid-size truck was prob a bit on the smaller-ish side, but as they grew, they reached a point where they didn’t need to get any bigger to fully function for the typical family of 4. I think we passed the point where it makes sense and is desirable and now it’s just ridiculous the size of these cars. A mid-size is basically a full-size and a full-size is commercial vehicle size. When will it end. Just update the model without growing it.

 

There is also unfortunate trend to make every car and sedan "sporty" AND with largest possible rim. Combine that with roads getting worse. I think people would have kept buying Buick and Cadillac sedans if they still made comfortable ride with large absorbing tires.

 

That's what prompted me to buy my 4Runner, just couldn't pay $250+ a month for tire blowouts.

 

I am fortunate to be able to afford multiple cars, including some classics. You really get to appreciate fat tires on some of them.

Likewise, ability to fit 17s inch rims on my 4Runner was one of the considerations. Roads around me are getting worse every year.

 

well i sat in a new tacoma, and the driver seat spacing is only marginally better than the 2016 we had. not as cramped as the 2016 but then again kinda biased once we got back in the tundra. may have to wait for the mid cycle refresh to maybe look into downgrading back to a tacoma.

maybe on par with my 2014 4runner, but tad smaller. hopefully the new 4R didnt get smaller in the front seat spacing.

to clarify, mostly talking about "elbow" room and resting position of arms and legs. on the 2016 it seemed like the seating positon was cramped for legs being pushed in and arms un-naturally pushed in.

 

Like everything in life, the answer is.... complicated.


Cars where not always big. The Model T weighed less than 1500lb. It had a 4 cylinder engine. Over time cars grew as buyers had more money, wanted more features, and hte automakers all tried to outdo each other delivering more.

Over time you had such monsters as the V16 Caddilac, and huge land barges of the 1950s and 60s.



Then this happened. And suddenly Americans started getting interested in small economical cars.


Most of us older than 40 remember that this is what started the import car boom as the Japanese beat the domestics to introduce small, fuel efficient cars. My Dad bought one of the first Honda's to come over and I remember riding around in this exact car as a kid. He also put a wood stove in our living room to help save on heating fuel oil..


Over the years of course cars start to grow again. Part of it is that Americans want more and bigger. Part of it is that the carmakers face market pressure to include more stuff in each new generation and that naturally drives growth. Another part that has been mentioned is that the CAFE standards have a different regulations for "light trucks" (which they pretty much have to, physics dictates that you are not going to be able to use the same fuel moving 10,000lb of truck that you can moving 3,000lb of car even if they are equally efficient). I don't know all the details but I think it has something to do with a loophole that allows the automakers to categorize an SUV as a light truck that allows to make them much bigger... so they market more of those and as soon as people starting buying them they caught on like mad because the soccer mom driving her kids around doesn't want to be in the smallest car on the road so buys a massive SUV thinking they need it to "be safe"

And don't get me started on pickups. The new Tacoma isn't just bigger than the 1st/2nd gen... heck its bigger than an F150 was in the 80s.

 

it seems any 1st gen model of toyota is the right size, but then the feedback is "fat americans need more space"

the 1st gen rav4 was the perfect size, but now its huge compared to then.

 

Yeah well we have all seen the Toyota truck chief engineer in those launch vids ...

(reminds self that I really need to exercise and loose some weight)

 

I know several people with pickups who haul virtually nothing. Some people install fancy bed covers and bedliners on their unused beds, too. To me, that's a waste. Might as well get an SUV or van of some sort and at least be able to utilize the back half of your vehicle. Using the 4R as an example (since I'm familiar with it), I can fit quite a variety of stuff inside (bags of mulch and soil, lumber, home improvement stuff, etc.). On the extremely rare occasion that I need to get something bigger, I can suck it up and have those items delivered. In my world that would make more sense than buying a just-in-case pickup.

 

yeah and i imagine if he sat in a tacoma drivers seat, that seating area is not enough for him.

 

True... but I do miss my Tacoma from time to time. The mulch is a perfect example... when I need to mulch but don't need enough for a delivery (3 yard minimum at most places), it was really easy to drive the Taco to the mulch yard in town and they would just use the bucket loader and dump a yard in the bed. Cant do that in the runner and buying by the bag at home despot is an expensive PIA.

Same thing with building materials. easy to get a load of 8ft 2x's and sheets of plywood- just hang them out the back. Now I need to rent a truck or use a trailer to get plywood (doesn't fit even with the seats down).


And yeah, I was one of "those guys with the tonneau cover" it helped with mileage and when we went camping and such all the gear is in the bed under the cover.



But the 4R is so much more comfy to daily and just more fun Im not going back. Wouldn't mine having both if I had hte space/budget however.

 

See, it sounds like a pickup fits you, and you use it. Gomiami was referring (I think) to the $60k-$90k luxo-trucks that never get used as trucks.

 

The answer for occasional need is a trailer. You can get a 5x8 with a 3k payload that rivals any SRW pickup and it's not attached to your transportation during projects.

 

i really need to get a new driveway pic of the 23 tundra and the 14 4runner all i have is a very old pic of the 14 4R, 16 Tacoma, 16 Highlander .

 

It’s also funny to think about how the mini work trucks in Japan have beds the same size as my Tacoma despite being overall 1/2 the size. I think a 5 passenger SUV doesn’t need to be larger than the 5th Gen 4Runner. Now or ever…

 

apple to watermelon


i wouldnt want to be in a front crash in a kei truck in the usa.

edit : remember in a kei truck, the only thing between you and the outside is just a windshield. there is no crash protection

 

Agreed, I would not want to in the USA but it's because everybody else drives an enormous rig with a 5' bed so one feels vulnerable otherwise. Getting hit in a kei truck by a half ton or full ton with a 5' bed would suck... but that's because literally everybody drives around in cars way larger than they need here. Im not saying everybody needs to drive a compact sedan, just that to my original point in this thread, sizes of cars and their continuous growth each successive model year has gotten out of control.

 

yeah a kei truck in its natural element (japan) probably would be an easier survival rate than the usa. i do love the dimensions on one but sadly i spend too much on networking gear and other toys to justify anything being driven faster than my legs outside of the 4R or the wife's tundra

 

What’s funny is my single cab 2.7 4 cylinder 4x4 Tacoma actually has a higher payload capacity than my 5.7 v8 tundra did!