Tacoma TRD Pro Cost $65,395

I’m not spending $60K on a Tacoma or 4Runner. That’s idiotic. I currently own one of each but I have no loyalty to a brand that’s trying to screw over its customers. I’ll look elsewhere if these crazy prices remain when looking to buy the next ride.

 

NEVER FEAR !! I am here to rescue you all. . .

 

It's not that people can't have good experiences with their Hyundai/Kia, I technically did up to 130k miles*. It's that they're built to a lower standard for not that much less money. Toyota spends less money on features and the interior and clearly saved reusing things between the new 4Runner, LC, GX. How long are those people keeping the car? Go to r/Kia and you'll see people saying that their Kia is great, no problems in 25,000 miles! (and if they're older than 2010ish, those are built better)

Hyundai and Kia save on the powertrain and random places around the car that should be fundamental like no immobilizer in key-start vehicles from 2011ish until late 2021. And it takes big problems and lawsuits for them to get off their butts and remedy customers and "fix" the problems they decided to create.

And even then the fixes have hurdles like requiring a software patch (KSDS) that doesn't prevent engine failure, just something requiring owners to get before they get the lawsuit warranty and if you don't know about it as a subsequent owner, too bad!

The early-10's Elantra piston-slap lawsuit warranty was for so called "cold states" only.

And if you're covered by the warranty, you're still in trouble since the rental allowance isn't enough, loaner isn't guaranteed, you'll have to fight for reimbursement for the tow...

It's all about money. Toyota decided not to chase Hyundai, Kia and Mitsubishi down that warranty path which I am willing to work that since so far, they have an overall solid track record of building engines and the rest of the car. (no wet belts, no sudden seizing, etc)

There's also the argument to be made as for why don't Hyundai and Kia let the 100k warranty follow the vehicle to subsequent owners? (Because many are sold before the 10 year, 100k mile mark so that cuts down on eligible cars, and if it burns all the oil away because not everyone checks their oil like us nerds do that's "owner neglect, goodbye!")

*OK except for worrying about the crap engine, having a window busted because no immobilizer, the washer fluid tank breaking and AWD needing replacement.

It's really not that uncommon for their entire decade of their direct injection 4-cylinders. It's not as bad as it once was and the replacement engines haven't been blowing up as much but funny how it took a decade of band-aids until they ran out the clock on the design.

They issued new dipsticks to increase oil capacity too but even then the dealer my parent's got free oil changes from consistently overfilled it. (3,000 mile intervals too, the 8-10k interval we can get away with here is just asking for trouble in H/K land)

You can compare CarComplaints too. 2011 Camry, Accord, Legacy, Malibu vs. the Sonata and Optima. 2016 CR-V, RAV4 and Sorento. Also take sales into account, the RAV4 and Camry are typically top sellers in their segments.

My parents have that year Sonata and it hasn't blown up yet at around 90k miles so that's good, people get lucky! But it doesn't mean it's a good car to buy.

 

Two points:
-I don’t care what a vehicle’s reliability or reputation was 10 years ago. I’m buying a new vehicle.
-Toyota has plenty of problems too. They have a lot of active recalls right now. Then there’s the whole Tundra seized engine fiasco. Rusty frames are pretty big deal too.

 

- If years of past and very recent subpar engineering and decision-making won’t turn you away from something new and shiny, I can’t stop you. You might get something just fine like my parents, (ok except for stalling once and getting a high pressure fuel pump replaced) but if not, whether it be engineering, dealer experience or poor resale, you signed up for it.

- I don’t know if you were around but this was on a scale that makes the Tundra and Honda 3.5L issues seem like a complete nothing burger.

- It’s not even about recalls themselves, everyone has recalls. It’s the nature of the recalls combined with its handling by the company which rivals Ford.

Edit: This also pains me because they CAN build reasonably solid cars.

 

I guess you probably aren’t too interested in Kia’s new pickup truck.

 

As much as I like "mid size" trucks, I think the ranger raptor is a bit overrated. From The pictures you can tell the suspension travel just isn't what the f150 raptor is. Plus the 3.0t engine is problematic.

Still it's a cool small truck

 

And GX550 Overtrail that can tow 9000 lbs costs $69,000.

 

Man, would you believe me if I said I was looking at the Kia Borrego last year before buying a 4Runner? (Sadly too rare but it did tick my boxes and seemed to have dodged their turn-of-the-decade issues.)

Maybe in several years without serious snafus my opinion will change, I’m very curious about seeing the Tasman but a pickup just isn’t for me currently.

I’m wondering if it did show up in the US, whether they could get away pricing it between where the Tacoma is going to be and Frontier, or whether it’d have to be below the Frontier. I bet it has to be based on the Borrego/Mohave’s frame.

Everyone does have a price though, and despite all my bellyaching about H/K I certainly do too.

 

Hyundai and Kia still haven’t figured out electrical. Almost every one I see going down the road has a burnout brake light or tail light. Start paying attention. Damnedest thing I’ve ever seen.

 

Toyota doesn’t have to. If a Kia or Hyundai owner somehow makes it past 100k miles without a rebuilt engine, then what? Sell, trade, cross your fingers? The Toyota will keep rolling with routine maintenance.

 

There’s plenty of Hyundais out there that have made it to high mileage without any problems at all. Who knows what these new Toyota turbo hybrids will be like when they hit 150K?

 

Valid point on the 4 Banger they’re putting in everything now.

 

still comparing apples to oranges.

if someone is looking at a palisade (highlander) or santa fe (rav4), you wouldnt be comparing a bof to all those unibody's

 

A lot of people ask me what car to buy, and want a 4Runner because they want awd and they prefer to be up high. They could care less about body on frame, off-roading, or any of the stuff that enthusiasts think are important. I just talked my daughter in law out of a new 4Runner because what they need is a Subaru or a Rav4. My son has the Tacoma that he uses for hunting, but they just needed a family car, or similar suv.

So, yeah, people do cross-shop the 4Runner with other, less off-road focused SUVs. In fact, for most people, the 4Runner is usually not the best fit. People buy what they buy for emotional not logical reasons.

 

Why? I see no benefit in the 4Runner being body on frame for anything we do with it. If anything the frame is a negative as it’s a headache to keep it from rusting away. I just had to reapply some surface shield when changing the oil yesterday. It’s a rusty mess under the skid plates.

 

only reason i go the 4R route is i need the ft 4wd system in the limited. the awd on the unibody models just doesnt suit my needs for wintertime in nd for getting to work. on occasion i go fishing where i might need it, but i have yet to use 4L in 11yrs for actual real world use (not including engagement to keep the system lubed).

the awd systems of toyota dont let you keep the diff locked above 30 mph (remember it will disengage at 30mph speedo reading not actual distance travelled)

i have seriously looked at getting a grand highlander cause i really dont need a 4R except for the 4wd setup on the 4R and i probably could get by with the grand highlander awd setup with compromises though.

 

The fist 3 generations of the 4Runner had a 4 banger (and even the 4th gen and part of 5th outside US) ... just sayin'

 

If snow is your main concern then get a Subaru. They are by far the best vehicles for driving in the snow.

 

I have had 2 Hyundai's. A 2009 Sonata Diesel and a 2007 Santa Fe. I also had a 2008 Toyota Camry.
My Sonata had 175000 miles before we sold it. My Camry had 161000 miles before we sold it.
The Sonata was as if not more reliable as the Camry and we spent equal on both cars' upkeep over the years.
My 2007 Santa Fe has been more reliable than my 2011 4runner. I think I had close to 220000 miles on before it was sent to our country home.We did not sell it and it is probably still running somewhere by someone.
The Koreans are at the same level as Japanese when it comes to vehicle building in today's time.
Look at the Genesis. No everyday brand has managed to capture the luxury end of the market dominated by the Germans in such a short time. Lexus has been trying it for decades.
It's literally a Hyundai with fancy drapes but I know at least 3 people that could have picked up the S class but bought the G90.
I like Toyota, they make fuss free cars, but they are not completely invincible when it comes to realibility and that's okay. I would gladly spend money to upkeep my Toyota than a German.

 

I'm glad you had a good experience, I've looked at a late-00's Borrego and Sorento myself but sadly the sharp styling, engine issues and anti-theft feature removal (plus who knows what else) all hit at once at the 2011MY heralded by the handsome new Optima and Sonata then.

 

i did have a 3.6R legacy. but after that i stayed clear of subu's since all models went cvt now (except sti's).

i prefer not to go cvt route if i can avoid.

 

Sounds like a Kia / Hyundai salesman is infiltrating? Lol

Completely different cars and feel. One doesn’t have to do serious off roading to want a 4Runner. If one must simply want a truck feeling, that alone is sufficient.
If one wants beyond proven reliability, that’s good enough to want a 4Runner. And I don’t care how many hundreds of thousands of miles a warranty a Kia has, it’s only valid if they honor it, it’s still a huge waste of your time to keep your car on the shop, and those cars are just crap compared to a 4Runner as it pertains to reliability. They’re also crossovers, not everyone wants that. Not everyone wants to look like a mom going to soccer, so that’s also a valid reason to own a 4Runner.

 

i loved that 3.6R, locked the diff + snow = smiles

but after i decided to look for something different (newer) i went back to a 4R in 2014 (3.6R was a 2010)

 

But 99% of 4Runner drivers I see are moms going to soccer or baseball.
I agree with you on the reliability of the 5th gen. It’s got to be one of the best if not the best vehicles you can currently buy in terms of reliability. I’m pretty skeptical about the 6th gen though.

 

yeah the engine is great in the 5th gen, but man its a complete slug when its under 3500-4000 rpm. it cant get out of its own way fast enough unless you mash the pedal to the floor.

i look forward to the new hv engine myself. and as long as it sits around 1800-2100 rpm for highway cruising, i will be happy since thats usually the sweet spot for mpg in most toyota models (ideal cruising speed)

not 55mph where you get your best mpg in real testing.

 

That’s being very kind….the engine was/is a disaster.

 

I have no problem passing, accelerating or moving around with the 4Runner at all. What you’re referring to isn’t a problem of the engine, is the transmission gearing.

That said, it’s a matter of getting used to how to drive it. I can easily anticipate circumstances that are tougher to the car, and use the manual shift gate proactively to overcome that before it’s an issue in the highway.

I enjoy the car making me work for the reward.

 

Hopefully it wasn’t a eco diesel.

 

I don’t notice ours being underpowered. It’s definitely slower that the Forester XT that it replaced. It cruises at 80-85mph pretty effortlessly. I rarely rev it over 3K either but I’m not racing from stop light to stop light.