Toyota's take on the difference between 4R and LC250

main article : https://jalopnik.com/toyota-believes-theres-room-for-both-the-land-cruiser-a-1851410961

Kalifa Sprowl, senior marketing planner for the Land Cruiser

Basically, styling aside, the biggest difference between the 4Runner and the Land Cruiser is that the Land Cruiser is a little more luxurious and not quite as gung-ho capable as the 4Runner. The Land Cruiser is designed for a more comfortable off-roading experience, while the 4Runner Trailhunter is going to give you a really dedicated, rugged experience.

 

According to details the Cruiser, Tacoma and 4runner are all cousins now in parts and commonality and share the platform.

 

Toyota can say whatever the hell they want but the truth is they now have 3 very similar products that over lap each other.
There was no need to bring in the smaller LC and rebrand it as just LC and then update the 4runner and also completely refresh GX.

 

Well it's about keeping production costs and prices down, streaming production and acquisition of materials in our new world. They have been halting production for weeks every so often because of lack of raw materials. China shut Japanese car production down years ago with their little spat by not supplying materials. The little Land Cruiser has been in Australia for a while. They are building Tacomas in Mexico now. Quality will go down.

 

Toyota must have a different opinion. I try to keep in mind that they stand to lose a lot more than we do. My investment in their model selections is zero, so I don't stand to lose anything. As I see it right now, we have more choices. I'm good with that.

 

That's what the free market is about. You can get what you want to pay for. I don't plan on having to buy another vehicle and it won't be new if I do. I guess if you want something as big as older LCs or V6, V8 you will have to get a Lexus

 

As a consumer looking for good reliable Japanese SUVs, we ve never had it better.
Three new products, spanning from rugged to luxury and every day use all from the most reliable brand in the country. We are spoilt for choices for sure.
I am just trying to understand Toyotas physche behind it. Cannibalizing own products.

 

It's all climate change, emissions, natural resources. It seems where we used to rebuild things at the dealer, now they are just replaced. I really like my 5th coming from 3rds. I'm pretty impressed with handling with Xreas working for a refrigerator. I have really pushed mine where AWD had to save me and that impressed me too. It's like a good dog thar knows what you're thinking before you think it and already has a plan when you change your mind. It was same curve each time.

 

Maybe they see a market that we don't. For example, someone may select an LC over an Explorer, both of which reside around $50k, because the LC is now 'nice enough' for that buyer, and a better buy overall.

 

Similarly, someone may select an LC over the 4runner because the buyer prefers more luxury than what a limited 4R would provide but not willing to spend Lexus money.
4 runner loses a sale but Toyota gains a sale.
Let's see how this goes.

 

If what that marketing person says is true, then Toyota has well and truly screwed the Land Cruiser brand proposition in the US.

Just my .02.

 

Could be. In that case, the buyer didn't have a viable Toyota option (in his/her opinion) before now. Maybe that buyer will select Toyota over Explorer/Pilot/Telluride/Palisade etc. The segments are getting full. Larger Korean SUVs didn't exist 10 years ago. That's another thing Toyota has to adjust to. It'll be interesting.

 

Another factor that I think is at play that hasn't been really talked about is interior space. The 6th gen 4R since it has the same interior as the 4th gen Taco, we could assume it's a little more narrow than the LC250.

To me, it seems like the LC is boxier and wider... the 4R is less boxy and the fender flares seem to stick out more from the body than the LC. Maybe I am wrong.

 

as long as the customer buys a yota or yota brand, then they are happy. Goal is to have your brand dominate what people see on the roads. They see it as adding choices and therefore potentially gaining or growing the customer base.

 

I think the Land Cruiser will sell to people who like Toyota's reputation for reliability, but want to own something "different" and considered more "exclusive". I've got a friend like that. He would NEVER buy a 4Runner simply because they are so ubiquitous. He always wants something that is different than what the crowd is driving. I suspect we will see 50-100 4runners on the road for every Land Cruiser, and that would be right down his alley.

 

and this was the reason the v8 was dropped from the 4R. it pushed people to get a lexus gx470 back then. v8 meant you spent about 10-20k more to get a v8 in a lexus (aka more profit to upsell you a v8 that you had in a cheaper 4R)

 

If you want full time 4WD and offroad stuff then LC, if not then 4R.

 

All while continuing offering 4Runner Limited..

 

they have been building them in Mexico for something like 20 years now. My 2014 Tacoma was built in Mexico, never needed anything but scheduled maintenance in the 9 years I owned it…

 

Toyota was going to make all three anyway, since the LC will be sold overseas. They figured they can sell the LC for more than the 4Runner on the strength of the LC name. The business case made sense for Toyota.

 

which the 4R also has. mechanically the LC250 and the 4R can be optioned exactly the same.

 

I don't think you can have full time 4wd and rear locker on 4Runner Limited, or crawl control/mts afaik. so no you cannot option LC and 4runner exactly the same.

 

i never specifically said the limited, but you can option a 4R like the LC.

edit: but from what i have heard the rear locker only works in 4 low. for my situation, i prefer the center lock in 4wd high for ND winters as i dont use the 4 low. in the 11 yrs of my 2014, i've never used it in a real situation (outside of engaging it to keep it lubed)

 

The move to the shared TGNA-F platform probably makes it a lot easier for Toyota to have all these closely related models and still turn a profit on each, it greatly reduces the development of each model. The wiki article on TGNA is enlightening, prior to this new initiative they where making something over 100 unique platforms globally.

I think the market positioning info shared in the OP makes a lot of sense. I love my 5th gen, but for the way I actually live and drive the new Land Cruiser probably makes more sense for me than the 6th gen. Where I live, rock crawling technical trails are pretty much non existent. I use mine as a daily driver, I have to commute in coastal New England winters (more ice and slush than deep snow driving). I use it for family road trips and camping and hauling a small utility trailer. I like having the offroad capability but my most common use case for that is driving down muddy washed out forest roads to camp sites,etc.

For what I do the LC would be ideal. The full time/AWD would be much better for icy/slushy commuting.. The bigger tow rating and added tow mode features help. The creature comforts would be a (not necessary but nice) improvement for vacation road trips and it still has more offroad capability than I will ever actually use.

Now, the Lexus is objectively more capable in every measure and probably a better value for the money, but the interior styling is a little bland/plush for my taste. Probably need to drive all 3 to decide.


But we all know human psychology - I may find myself buying the 6th gen anyway just because it looks more aggressive
Or maybe Ill keep my 5th gen forever.
Who knows.

 

The 4Runner is styled to be cohesive with the led fangs, wide stance mentality..

Cruiser is more everyday practicality, limited superficial focus

 

Yeah everyone has different needs/wants. I would've liked if my 4runner had full time 4WD/rear locker combo but it's wasn't an option on 5th gen and still isn't on 6th gen, but at least now you can get LC or GX Overtrail that come with both.

 

TNGA platform making it a low incremental cost to spin-off different variations makes it smart for Toyota to split hairs as thin as they are with the LC, 4Runner and GX, even if the price points overlap a decent bit in certain trims. If you think about it, three-row crossovers is a crowded space now as most every mainstream maker has representation there (Palisade, Telluride, Explorer, Pathfinder, etc) but not all have a variety of ladder frame offerings, so Toyota seems to be taking its shot to pluck off the Wrangler, Bronco crowd and ensuring existing customers in the fold remain within the family.

It really seems like full-time 4wd is the biggest differentiation and argument for LC vs 4Runner. At the high-level trims, I'm fairly certain its not going to be a cost consideration whether you go with one vs the other as Trailhunter and Pro will cost as much as all but the highest-end LC. It will come down to priorities and styling.

 

There's probably a higher profit margin in the 4Runner TRD Pro and Trailhunter, so, Toyota is fine whichever vehicle you spend $60+k on.

 

So Joe Raiti talks about this at minute mark 8:08. He says the 4R is definitely smaller than the LC. I guess it is the same exterior dimensions, but it's only the fender flares that make it those dimensions. The body overall is smaller like the Taco.

https://youtu.be/-cgZnNuZPHw?si=qG-cCdgl5nnMnUIq

 

So, I've just been grazing LC250 specs and 5th Gen 4R on the Toyota website. Interior room on the new LC is definitely smaller than the current 5th gen. That sounds odd, given that the LC is overall a few inches longer, wider, and taller than the current 5th gen. We'll have to see how the 6th gen 4R fares. If it has the same dimensions, and it feels smaller when driving it, then, start looking at the Sequoia.