6th gen losing KDSS

I apologize if this has already been posted and known. First time I saw this update.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/2025-toyota-4runner-kdss-offroad-stabilizer-disconnect-system/

 

Key information is that its getting something in its place not like all options are being completely removed.

Is it better no ideas.

 

Another reason to go gx, that thing has that ekdss which should be quicker than the current kdss

 

the are adding avs (tundra) to the premium trims (limited/platinum) aka xreas replacement.

 

TRD Pro will have FOX

Trail Hunter will have Old Man Emu

Same as Tacoma lineup.

 

Probably due to the push button sway bar disconnects.

 

Thanks for this, I was wondering about it

 

Im not surprised. KDSS, while a great concept was just an option on the TRDOR right?, and as best I can tell not many buyers chose it. Heck in the northeast I looked for one and not a single dealer within a few states actually had any in their allocations.

I suspect it came down to the fact that the system, while very elegant and not terribly complex probably costs a lot more to build than a simple electronic sway disconnect, and very few buyers actually understand what it does. The electronic sway is cheap, does at least some of what KDSS offered and is easier to understand - making it a more obvious and easy to market selling point vs. Jeep and Bronco. As much as enthusiasts may not like it this makes a lot of business sense for Toyota.

 

plus if you wanted to beef up or replace the suspension, ripping out kdss was a pita and you pretty much threw that money away you paid. eaiser to save the money on not getting kdss and go 3rd party.

you could improve your suspension way better for cost you spent in kdss going 3rd party.

same for the other trims, if you will eventually upgrade the suspension, no point in adding avs, or other fancy stuff if you are just going to rip it out and repalce it with better stuff.


good example is whats him name (eurodriver) on the tundra forum going with a SR or SR5 bare bones and did all that aftermarket add ons to beef it up. didnt waste any money on ripping out stuff

 

Probably very few 4Runner buyers do serious offroading, and of those that do probably trick out their 4Runner with full aftermarket packages.

I never saw where having KDSS made sense from Toyota's perspective, if a very small fraction of buyers will ever use it.

 

KDSS is pretty unique engineering in that it improves on-road handling as much as it improves articulation off-road, without driver input. I had to read-up and learn how it works before I could really appreciate how clever KDSS is.

In fact, you could argue it’s effect for on-road highway handling and safety is the primary benefit every owner gets, because even if you off-road, you’re probably driving the highways the majority of time. Its handling on-road is much better than the 4runners with the normal suspension.

But it makes sense for toyota to go with sway bar disconnects. KDSS is an elegant concept but it's an additional hydromechanical system that is expensive to fix if something goes wrong, and it probably requires someone smarter than the average bear to service it.

On the other hand, the new electric swaybar disconnect system is probably way easier to service if something goes wrong. And from a marketing standpoint, it’s much easier to sell because it’s very easy for youtubers to understand how it works. However, a swaybar disconnect doesn’t improve handling on the highway like KDSS does.

 

for those that didnt want the off road aspects of kdss you could have the xreas system on the limited, its more suited for on road dynamics without any real benefit for off roading.

 

X-REAS: Diagonal-linked Relative Absorber System

1. Sport Enhancement Suspension
2. std on Sport model, available on Limited (not on SR5)
3. developed by Yamaha;

a. previously used in domestic Toyota models
b. worlds 1st use in a mid-SUV​

4. the compression chamber of each shock is cross-linked to it's diagonal mate

a. via a “center control absorber”:
b. the center absorber has a free piston pushing against a low pressure Nitrogen charge;
c. orifice below the piston passes small motions across the vehicle from front to rear​

5. X-REAS is designed to

a. dampen overall suspension compression & extension motions;
b. dampen diagonal roll & pitch motions
c. improve on-road stability & handling, especially in transition
d. reduce vehicle bottoming

​

 

The problem with X-REAS is that you are stuck with the oem shocks. And, once they crap out, you're spending a ton to replace them, or you lose X-REAS.

Otherwise, I think it's a very nice concept!

 

well for oem shocks, i think they are pretty dam good. at 105k / 11yrs and no issues on my limited

 

True. I'm not sure how long they last on average.

 

The reveal video showed the Limited and Platinum were getting the "Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS)". Is there reason to believe this is the Toyota X-REAS vs the Lexus Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS)?

Since X-REAS has been known to leak and be expensive to replace, I would hope it's been improved, upgraded or replaced by the Lexus AVS or some newer generation AVS?

 

its probably like the tundra AVS, probably way easier to adapt to the 4runner since its already in place on the tundra and its the same frame.

 

the only bad part is the added complexity and relies on electronic components. the xreas was simple and required no extra equipment/components. its was just a simple fluid movement between the cross linked shock

 

But, electronics don't leak

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leakage_(electronics)

Sorry I had to do it lol

 

i guess i should have worded it as a passive system, no external inputs or electronics/solenoids

 

LOL, yes, I've had to measure my share of micro-amperes leakage current in my aerospace career, but, I was trying not to lose anyone and keep it simple to hydraulic leaks.

 

My 4th gen XREAS lasted about 120k. Tore off all the lines after that and replaced shocks with Bilstein. It was too explensive for me at the time to replace the XREAS. Somewhere around $4k.

I think new shocks are nice but not quite as good as the stock XREAS setup imho, which provided a really smooth ride.

 

not to bad considering it was .03 cent a mile

but yeah the outlay for replacement is really steep unless you keep it another 5+ years.

 

I still contend that the fancy expensive xreas/kdss/sway bar disco stuff is useless to 95% of buyers. And about 80% of the remaining 5% who off road including myself. I'll stick to decent shocks, a mild lift, a decent spotter and common sense. I hate getting older...get off my lawn.

That said, I do like the 4Runner, it's a logical evolution and will likely get one for the wife once we pay off the 21, and add +2 years for the shakeout to happen. It has her power rear hatch, electric folding mirrors and a ventilated seat. All thing's she really wanted in the first place. I'll get the 21 for the next 15 years, and mothball the 04 Taco for my son. Maybe he'll cross the 500k mi mark...

 

X-REAS isn't marketed as an off-road feature. It's designed to make the 4Runner more stable in normal driving circumstances.

KDSS improves on road handling and off-road articulation, but it eventually becomes a limitation. It still provides the best articulation without deleting sway bars.

Anyone who off-roads could see the value in a sway bar disconnect, even if it isn't a necessity for their type of off-roading.

None of these things are designed to replace driver skill or judgment. I'm not sure why some folks seem to think that they're interchangeable.

 

In our locale it’s the opposite, KDSS 4R are plentiful.

 

Yeah, KDSS is popular around here too. Its a great system that you never have to think about or engage. But i think Toyota realized people want more control and the perception of more features so they did what other manufacturers have done. Problem those that know how KDSS works know they will lose some of the handling characteristics you wont get by just making a disconnect.

 

I think this is spot on. Granted, I'm saying this being somewhat ignorant and having relatively little experience with 4Runner (drove a 4th gen for a few years). I had a Bronco order (cancelled it) and have owned three Jeep Wranglers (TJ and JLR). I am selling my current Wrangler to purchase a 2024 4R, and I'm doing that instead of a 6th gen.

Selling points for me are the ride, reliability and how well the 4R does off road. I'm coming from three Wranglers; one I "built" mainly for off road and two Rubicons that I regularly took off road. I realize the 4R will never wheel like the Rubicon (stock vs stock), but it does 80% or so as well off road (at least the 4th gen did).

My 2024 4R has to do moderate to difficult trails and from what I've seen the KDSS improves articulation, which translates to traction. Many people don't understand that, and I didn't. In fact, I tried to buy a 4R without it and then did a little more research and if what I've seen/heard is true, you want KDSS off road. I'm buying my 4R with KDSS, purposely, specifically, for off road. It isn't as easy to market though, not to people that know Broncos and Wranglers. They want "disconnects", not KDSomethingSomething.