How many of y'all are running no front sway bar ?

I was at Moab this weekend, and wanted to try out running no front sway bar after talking with friends who ditched the sway bars on their Toyotas, as well as watching the tinkerer video https://youtu.be/gcgKbUTQJy8?si=swLYj38_0OYavFzD

so I unbolted the end links, strapped the bar to my frame, and went for it.

man, what a difference. I’d say it’s easily been one of the biggest off-road improvement “mods” I’ve done thus far. The ride quality on rough roads is far better, and the front end can actually be felt flexing and articulating over obstacles compared to before. I lifted tires far less doing harder trails at Moab, compared to other easier trails I’ve done.

mobbed from Utah back to Denver down I70, fully loaded down with camping gear. Sure, you notice the lack of a sway bar going around corners and through winding mountain passes, but I never felt it unsafe. Just don’t barrel into a corner going 20 over and you’ll be fine.

what have your experiences been without a front sway bar?

 

Sway bar makes A LOT of difference for on-pavement driving, you have to drive with extra care, as if driving on ice, without it. You can't 'feel' it, as doing so induces oversteer (i.e., car will tend to spin out when turning) and unless you are experienced track driver you won't notice it approaching the limit and able to correct to compensate. More so, the instinctive response is to lift off the throttle and even apply brakes, inducing weight transfer to the front making things worse.

My experience without sway bar: one time on a track I snapped my front sway bar links (part substitution by mechanic, didn't know they put in chinesium part) and I ended spinning out almost right away after that happened. Pure luck that I ended up in a grass and not in a serious wreck.

At the very least disconnect both front and back, as the car will handle more neutrally.

 

I’ve been tempted for a while now to get rid of the sway bar. But rolling the vehicle over, and handling issues like the oversteer potential you mention are the things that are holding me back. If I didn’t put as many road miles on it as I do, I’d probably risk it.

Some could argue that the stability control system would save you, but that has its limits too.

I do like the idea of the new disconnect option that’s out there, but time will tell if it’s durable enough. The consequences for a swaybar falling onto the CV boot/joint is pretty expensive at best.

 

5 years sober swaybar-less with my Tacoma:

 

Took it off on my 17’ TRD offroad 4x4 taco, havent on my 4runner yet but probably will down the line

 

I run no sway bar in the front or rear. It drives fine on pavement, just can’t corner like a race car. I’ve never had it feel like driving on “ice”.

It’s perfectly safe as long as you aren’t driving like an asshole and have the proper suspension setup. If you’re running stock coil springs on a 3” lift, you’ll experience excessive roll in turns.

Im sitting on tuned Kings with 650 pound coils, HD rear coils, Cali fab adjustable rear links, and 35’s.

 

After seeing this vid, I decided to keep the sway bar. Trail repair just isn't my thing. FWD to 5:30 for the pertinent part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJPgBzf85sc

 

I’ve literally never had that happen in my 30+ years of wheeling. Ever.

 

Mmmm, articulation.

How feasable is it to remove a sway bar for a wheeling trip, then put it back on after? It’s just the two bolts for both swaybar mounts, and the bolts on each of the uprights correct? How hards is to snake it out, and get all the bolts to align with the upright bolts holes when putting it back on?

 

I’ve seen that video a few times (love the go pro shots underneath tow rig). Every time I look at the repair I’ve been trying to figure out how it could have over extended enough to break the cv axle.

Well finally, I think I figured it out!!! His shock was way too long! Look at how it’s been bent. That shock already bottomed out internally, hard enough to bend the lower shaft.



If it’s long enough to smash itself on a compression stroke, then it also means it’s long enough to extend much further than it should. The shock should be the is the “limit strap”. But if it’s too long it will droop too far. I’m also guessing the lower control arm is long travel. I think this wasn’t set up right when it all those suspension parts were changed.

 

Definitely isn’t LT lower. It’s a TC uniball lower and he’s running Camburg Deta Joint uppers which I don’t believe are designed to work well together. One has more travel than the other and I think some odd binding may have been the culprit. It wasn’t the lack of sway bar. Looks to be a LT strut on mid travel uppers and lowers.

 

That's incorrect. The sway bar doesn't limit droop at all if both wheels are in the air. The 4Runner guy broke his CV axle with his front locker. The broken CV axle then whipped and took out the shock mount. It's explained later in the video at 11:20:

https://youtu.be/vJPgBzf85sc?t=681

 

I just unbolted the end links and strapped the bar to the frame. Took me probably about 10-20 minutes to get it all squared away. I did it on the side of the trail though.

 

I’d worry about that strap coming loose and the ends falling down on the cv boots. But it might be worth me figuring out a really solid way to hold it up securely out of the way. Can you describe a bit more how you strapped it on and where?

 

I was under the impression it's not possible to over travel and the sway bar does not limit travel in that way. I think Trident904 is correct. He had a miss match combination of parts.

I'm not keen on just unbolting the sway bar and tying it out of the way. If it should come loose it would tear up the CV joints. I see a pair of these quick disconnects in my future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j80kJC-l2xw&t=1s

 

I like the concept of those, but I wanna see how they fail first lol.

Now I wanna go crawl underneath and brainstorm if there’s a solid way of holding up a disconnected swaybar. Maybe even making something that I could bolt the end-links to so it’s effectively bolted positively with no chance of the thing flooping around. Hmmm…

 

I'd like to see how they hold up.......they aren't cheap. Yeah, a secure way to hold the bar up would be nice.

 

Front lockers on factory CV axles are bad juju. A lot of folks don’t understand that it’s very easy to overbuild to the point it’s bad because they didn’t compensate for the beefed up parts elsewhere on the vehicle.

ATRAC works great for these rigs and I have yet to come across a situation where I absolutely needed a front locker.

I have seen tons of the “YouTube heroes” running front lockers while descending a slickrock obstacle and every time I see it I yell at the screen “you’re gonna break your shit.” There’s way too many self proclaimed “experts” on the interwebs handing out turds instead of good info.

Here’s a great video on YouTube from an Aussie guy explaining when to use and not use lockers.
https://youtu.be/4U1SLSV9wNk?si=XiuzNtsL1ofJOQ-x

I know this thread is about sway bars, but might as well educate a bit on lockers. Anyway, OP, lose the swaybar. You’ll live, I promise.

 

Since no one answered your question, I’ll do it.

You’ll have to drop your skid plate and front frame braces (I think, it’s been awhile since I took mine off). You’ll see what you need to do once the skid plate is off.

Honestly, I would recommend pulling the sway bar and go drive it for an hour and see how you feel. Take some corners at various safe speeds and you’ll get a feel for it pretty quickly. You aren’t going to roll the vehicle.

 

That's just a Fox 2.0" stock replacement coilover capable of 0-2" of lift (like this: )

The whole build is kinda incoherent. He's running fiberglass fenders and wheel spacers to widen stance. There's a front locker but power-deploy running boards instead of rock sliders. Maybe he's building it in stages.

 

Gotcha, I couldn’t really tell what they were from the video segments I paid attention to. So, wow, not even extended travel struts. Kind of defeats the purpose of putting the uppers and lowers on.

You are correct in that the build is kind of incoherent. It’s almost like a FB Marketplace build, lol.

 

I thought about the removal route if spending several days in an offroad area (once we arrived), it's a bit of a pain with with shields and all but certainly doable. I'd love to just remove the links and strap the bar up like on the TJ, but have read that it WILL still interfere with the CV when flexed.

 

That little shock absorber will get sloppy and make noise before anything really bad happens. As you'd expect a company without prior shock absorber expertise making shock absorbers.

 

If I understand the purpose of that little shock correctly, it’s just to damp the movement and noise of the sway bar when it’s disconnected. So a failure will just be annoying, but not necessarily damage the CV joint. I’m more worried about the actual strength of the end-link/disconnecting portion, and how durable it is in areas where salt is used on the roads.

 

That would be the least of my worries. I don’t like how it is the only thing keeping the UCA connected to the spindle. Way too many moving parts at a major stress point.

 

I finally got time to mess with this today, I hadn't found much on temporary removal anywhere, so for those who were wondering like me: First I tried to find a safe way to unhook the bar, turn it up and secure it without removing it for quicker trail use. With the links disconnected the bar is trapped under the ball joint and can't move up and out of the way, it only moves 2-3 inches in the confined space. Forever: Did you just strap yours in place there? I gained zero droop with the bar unhooked, maybe because I have a 5/8 top spacer on the Fox shock, the UCA just barley touches the paint on the Eibach spring at full droop so I wouldn't want anymore. I have 4.5 inches of droop with it jacked up.

Next I thought maybe unbolt it from the frame, turn it up out of the way, re-bolt it in the "up" position and find a way to secure the ends. This would save trying to stow the bar if I choose to remove it before hitting a trail. No dice, with it turned up the center of the bar hits the oil filter housing so some kind of relocation bracket would be needed. THIS would be a good project for someone to fabricate and sell a bunch of. You could unbolt it, and secure it in place in 10 minutes.

I went ahead and removed it for a test drive to explore the possibility of temporarily removing it for long offroad trips. After a long drive in many conditions this seems like a good solution for now. Under 50mph it's fine even swerving. At highway speeds swerving pitches it around more but it's still doable, much like older cars feel if you've spent any time in them. They rock and roll much the same way. It feels like my TJ did with the sway bar connected lol. I'll give it a real world test in a couple weeks but it seems promising.

I would never suggest anyone else remove theirs, and I wont leave mine off, but short term the additional articulation will be very welcome on the trail.

 

I just drove from south Florida to Utah and back with no front or rear sway bar and had no issues. It’s fine to keep them off if you have the right suspension.

 

I think I need these.

 

I drove my 4th Gen for years without the front bar and never had regrets. I only reinstalled it to sell the vehicle.

 

If I’m not mistaken, there are also limits to how much angle your CV joint can take.