Transmission question

Hello,
I bought a 2014 sr5 2wd 4runner 109k miles a couple of months ago and was working on getting a tyranny flush set up.
The other week I started getting the torque converter shudder in between 30-40mph. 118k miles. I brought it into a shop and they said it showed signs of wear. My warranty company won't cover it because it's not a complete failure. So the shop filled up the lost tyranny fluid and sent me on my way. Now with the new fluid in there it hasn't done it and drives smooth.

Question:
If I drained/flushed the rest of the fluid out and had all new fluid in there. Would it help extend the life and not be an issue? Is it possible I caught it early enough, and as long as I always have fresh fluid in there, I could not have a bigger issue?

Thing is, I almost don't want to do that to make sure if it does go out, that it goes out under warranty.

I'm not sure. What are your thoughts on how you'd handle the situation?

 

Wait a second. So there was lost fluid? Where? How? Shop fills it up and it's OK? The shudder would definitely be caused by low fluid. The question is, where did it go? Full flushes aren't generally recommended. A partial pan drain and fill should be sufficient. Also, what does the fluid look like? What does it smell like? Those two things will tell you a lot about the state of the transmission.

 

I'm no expert, but here is a thread that discusses various options:

https://www.4runners.com/threads/trans-fluid-change.36194/#post-539712

 

The shop never mentioned anything about low fluid originally. I've been underneath changing the oil and didn't see any leaks anywhere on the engine/transmission. I'd only do a drain, new filter, new gasket.
But also don't know, because the shop just said there is signs of wear on the torque converter, how bad, they didn't say and there isn't any code being thrown. So maybe it was just low oil, and major damage hasn't been done???
I know the look of the oil, but what's the smell I should be looking out for?

If it came down to it, if I had to replace, I'd want it under my warranty, but also if it is something where major damage wasn't done and its savable, I'd rather have that. The warranty company uses LKQ reman's and I've heard mixed reviews. So keep the Toyota trans would be ideal.

 

How does one see wear on a torque converter?

 

It's going to smell burnt and be dark with metallic flakes in it if your transmission is on the way out.

This is a line of bullshit. One cannot see signs of wear on a torque converter.

Yeah. Don't go there. With something major, such as a transmission, insist on OEM.

Do this. Possibly not even a new filter. Depends on the state of the oil when you drop it from the pan. Easy job. Plenty of videos out there. Sounds like you are set up to do it.

 

Just trying to help you solve the problem and keep money in your pocket. No need to get defensive.

 

All good dude. I appreciate your input. I'm not a mechanic by any means, just try to watch all the DIY videos and scour the internet to get as much input and knowhow to judge what I can and can't do, and keep some money in my pocket.

 

You can definitely drop and replace your transmission fluid. Not much different than changing oil, which it sounds like you've done. It will give you a good idea of what's going on in there. And, it's first hand. In other words, you won't have someone trying to sell you something you don't need. Take pictures of things. Post them here. We're all here to help, and there's a lot of knowledge here.

 

From what I understand torque converters are fluid couplings, so not sure they “wear” per se. Now, the clutch bands can wear, and maybe whatever is involved in locking the torque converter might be a problem. There are also the solenoids. Not sure they could find wear of anything unless they are pointing to something they found based on a fluid drain?

Seems kind of low mileage for things to be worn out, but maybe the solenoids are bad? However, I don’t think you’ll find anyone besides a transmission shop willing to open it up and change out solenoids etc.

 

From what @catbrown357 mentioned, that the shudder could have come from low fluid. So maybe it's not necessarily that my torques going bad, as it just got low on fluid (which would be awesome news)
It only shuddered 3 or 4 times in the 2 days before I got it into the shop, and since I've gotten it back with it put back together (with the drain and fill they did putting it all back together) it hasn't been an issue. So maybe no serious damage was done. So I might just ride it out and drain and fill it again in 30K. If not, I've got 4.5yrs left on the warranty. Time will tell. The Appalachian mountains will let me know. Most of the ones I live around are all 30-40mph up them, so if it is starting to fail, they'll point it out

Also, heard on one of Car Care Nut videos that it happens in the Camry and it happens from a software update that needs to happen. So maybe I've got to check that out, maybe I don't have it in my 4R

 

I’ve also heard of the “shudder” on tacomas.

I bought a 2006 Sienna new and somewhere around 80-100k miles I started noticing a very brief shudder at highway speeds whenever the torque converter would lock up. I could feel it specifically after it downshifted (or when it unlocked the converter) going uphill, and it would shudder (very subtly and briefly) when the revs dropped back down at the top of the hill. It only did it when the drivetrain was under load like at highways speeds.

A buddy told me to just drain and refill the transmission fluid with toyota fluid (not a fluid flush). Once I did, the shudder went away completely. I did a pan drain and refill a couple more times during the time I owned it. I sold it at around 200k miles and the transmission was still smooth as butter with no shudder.

Hopefully that’s exactly the case with yours!

 

Hopefully that's the case! I'll keep the thread updated with what I find out as I find out. Did you do just a drain, no new filter?

Have you heard about the software update thing?

 

just drain and refill. I don’t think it's worth doing the filter based on what I know about them. Skipping the filter also reduces the risk of creating nee problems through mistakes or installation difficulties (like corrosion on pan bolts, gasket seal errors/problems). For expensive components, my philosophy is to keep it simple so I don’t make things worse or make problems where there were none before.

Haven’t heard about software updates. I’d probably drain/refill first,then do updates if the problem persists. But I don’t think the 4runner ever had software updates for shudder, has it?

 

Drain and fill with OEM fluid. No need to change the filter. No flushing-that's for toilets.

 

Explain to me how a transmission can operate normally for years and then all of the sudden it needs a software update to continue shifting normally?

Is there an internal timer that only allows normal function for a set amount of time?

Does not compute.

 

Will do that.

The software thing, I just saw in one of the videos I watched. Something with the clutch engaging too early.

Anyway. Probably won't worry about it then.
Thanks for the help!

 

Funny you mention that…i recall noticing that on my sienna the torque converter lockup happened a little too early…while it was still climbing the last bit of a rise at interstate speeds. It seemed to me the lockup was happening under load. I bet if the transmission waited a split second longer to lock up, it woukd have happened with less load, with less shudder.

But like I said, a bit of fresh fluid from the drain/refill was sufficient to improve shifting to like-new.

 

Hello - Used to work at a transmission shop. Shudders aren't too common on these transmissions. For shudder the first thing to do is a fluid drain/fill. Like someone else mentioned, not necessarily worth dropping the pan fully to replace the filter (it's just a metal screen) unless you wanted to check for metal.

If the drain/fill doesn't solve your issue, you can add a tube of Lubegard shudder fix as a band-aid..if that works cool, keep doing that with fluid changes otherwise you'd likely be looking at a torque converter.

 

Those updates probably just remap shifting and lockup behavior to avoid the conditions that result in shudder. For example, maybe they can reprogram the amount of throttle flare during shifts, how long it holds each gear, change when the lockup happens, or how fast the clutches engages.

 

Good point, maybe that’s it?

You get the tin foil hat award this week, wear it with pride.

 

That’s my bet anyway. In other words a software update is an admission all the shifting parameters were not ideal from the factory.

Oh, and thanks for the hat!