To Hybrid or Not Hybrid

The range issue for pure EV's is still a limiting factor for many, including me. Even with a $78,000 Lucid Air only has a 400 mile range, and that drops considerably in cold weather. It's not an issue if it a commuter car, but for long distance driving a gas hybrid is a better choice.

 

Tesla had a lot of issues, but not sure what you've listed warrant anyone to not consider it at all.

Never had a problem where car didnt lock, didnt chime when I was walking away.

what do you mean by shifting interface?

Not unique to tesla. Not sure the reason was tesla being cheap but would not put it past them. Honestly lot of "sporty" vehicles choose not to have door frames, I imagine its to be more aerodynamic? Or reduction in weight?

Not sure what your parents have, but teslas tend to drive stiffer. They have *way* better handling than 4Runner, absolutely no comparison. 4Runners are quite forgiving of potholes etc. but on stock suspension are terrible around corners. I have model Y performance and it is an absolute blast to drive. The torque takes your breath away and never gets old.

 

Toyotas have been in hybrid space for decades, and have done a really good job producing reliable hybrids. I would not choose next 4runner that is a hybrid, but not because it has a hybrid powertrain. It will likely be country of origin, reliability of 4 cylinder powertrain over the long run etc. Right now all we have is speculation, we will see how it does for next few years. But atm I believe I am driving a timeless design in 5th gen 4Runner and don't see any reason to look at future 6th gen.

 

Agreed, although I'd say its not strictly the range but the availability of chargers. Tesla is ahead of others in this space, and perhaps things improve when they have opened up their network for others.
I am always looking at my remaining range when driving out of town, and I am in northeast where there is decent coverage of superchargers. I can not imagine driving it in rural areas, outside of larger cities anywhere else but coasts.

 

Nope, not going to waste my time debating people like you. I have already spent far too much time trying to reason with TeslaStans.

 

Accord hybrid owner here, nothing to plug in and I regularly get 50 mpg. The car does 0-60 in 6 seconds and handles great. I'm a big fan.

 

I figured you’d like perspective from someone who uses it regularly than being occasional driver. I think there are reasons to not like Tesla but you are wrong

Wtf is Teslastans?
you could have just not responded, rather than saying you won’t respond.
Or ignore me, that’s an option as well. Just wanted to point out the issues you raised are really non-issues. I am certainly not a Tesla fan, but just want to call out when I see something clearly wrong, based on my personal experience.

 

I like the idea of an i-Force MAX 4Runner, but I bought my 5th gen for simplicity and reliability. Most modern vehicles have become to complex for me to even be interested in. I look forward to watching some teenage take a Sawzall to my 4Runner in 30 years so he can clear 40's

 

This video does a good job describing the CVT experience, however, just not quite as loud.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVlTeIATBs&pp=ygUgbW9zdCBhbm5veWluZyBzb3VuZCBpbiB0aGUgd29ybGQ=

 

up here in ND, we dont see many tesla's running around in winter time. spring/summer/fall yes but once winter hits, it hits practically zero. our brutal temps ruin the range and unless you have a garage (better if its heated) recharge time outside in the cold will be non existent in during our deep plunges in temp.

remember tesla will not charge if the battery pack is too cold or will take forever.

officially there is only 5 superchargers in the state

3 on i-94 (east/west only)
2 on i-29 (north/south only)


we have like 2 independent chargers in town and the nearest official supercharger is 106 miles away.


and god forbid you get stranded outside one of the major citys or stray off the 2 interstates roads or major state road during our winters. sometimes it can take hours for someone to come get to you or tow truck you out. and its worse if the road fills in behind you with snow.

forgot to add, typical safety margin during winters up here is to keep your gas tank filled and to not let it go below half in case you get stuck somewhere waiting for help. 1/2 tank of gas to keep you warm while waiting for help. and you dont go walking to find help or a house. seen too many people freeze to death in ND trying to walk to a house they thought was close by and then realize its actually further away than you thought.

 

no point buying Tesla in such places. Hell even in northeast on Monday it was eclipse and everyone took their ICE out because they weren’t sure how long the lines would be at superchargers.

 

they are great outside of winters up here. great as a 2nd car but unless you are good financially, impractical to have a tesla sitting 4-6 month year during our winters. at work pretty much 60-70% of the workers have a 2nd car for summer to commute to work (save gas) and a truck/suv for winters. i personally dont have a 2nd car since the offset of a mpg compact doesnt work compared to just maintaining a 4runner vs 2 vehicles.

right now i work 4x10 work weeks, after work on thursday, my 4runner pretty much sits in the garage until monday morning. if wife and me go out we usually take her tundra since we can barely get 5-6k a year on it as it is.

right now we are at 6,283 miles and we drove it off the lot 23-feb-23. did the first oil change at 1200 miles and the 2nd around 5k miles back in dec/jan.

 

Sorry, how did you come up with $4k?

Prius: 150,000 (mi) / 43 (mi/gallon) * 3 ($/gallon) = $10,500

4Runner: 150,000 (mi) / 20 (mi/gallon) * 3 ($/gallon) = $22,500

The difference is $12,000! It is almost a half of the cost of a new prius!

 

Hybrids cost more money to buy.
Hybrids cost more money to insure.
Hybrids cost more money to fix.

Be sure to add that into your calculations to find the true cost of ownership.

 

Check my post again and you’ll see I’m comparing a guesstimate 3 MPG difference - not to a Prius.

 

Got it. Thank you for clarification.

 

If you want to put a number on this, you need to make apples to apples comparison. Gasoline-only car that is comparable to Prius would be nonhybrid 169-hp 2.0-liter Corolla which gets 41 mpg highway and 36 mpg, combined.

Nonhybrid Corolla: 150,000 (mi) / 36 (mi/gallon) * 3 ($/gallon) = $12,500 ($2000 lifetime fuel savings over Prius)

... but wait! We are not done yet.

2025 Nonhybrid Corolla starts at $23,310, while 2024 Toyota Prius starts at $29,085, so it is extra $5,775 pre-tax.

So you are in the hole by $4000. I expect the hole to be deeper for 6Gen 4Runner.

 

the difference is less than that if you factor in the premium you pay because it’s a hybrid. Usually around $3-4k and added insurance cost and maintenance costs on the hybrid/battery components. When you do all that, the difference is smaller.

 

The Tacoma / 4Runner / Tundra hybrid was never about saving money; it's a way to get more power in thr car without hurting gas mileage (and without Toyota having to offer multiple engines).

The question should be, is the added power worth the up front cost and future complexity? There are also some side benefits, like the 2400w inverter. I don't know if you can run the AC with the engine off (electric compressor?), but that would be a nice benefit, too.

It really comes down to a car by car basis:
For something like the Rav4, it's an easier decision: $2-3k more on paper, 220 vs 180 hp, and 40 vs 29 mpg, plus the engine off "idling". In reality though, you end up paying more, because fewer hybrids made means you end up paying more, since the gas models have more deals.

I think it really depends on what trim you want; aren't all of the upper trims hybrid-only?