Paranoid about Drivetrain binding

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum as I recently bought a 2014 4Runner sr5 4wd.

Coming from a 4th gen 4Runner Limited V8 with a full-time 4wd system, I never had to worry about drive-train binding because it was always on 4H and there was no option to kick it into 2wd. Also not sure if it's called drivetrain binding or driveline binding, or what-not, but you probably know what I am talking about.

I live in Southern Alberta (Canada) and the weather has gone from -25C to +5C within a week. This has led to snow melting on the road leading to dry and ice patches on the highway.

I have tried driving it in RWD at high speeds but I have noticed that sometimes where there is ice, I fish tail and it scares me quite a bit because it can lead to an accident so I usually just keep it in 4H at moderate to high speeds (going straight or going into a gradual turn) but this constantly makes me worried about drivetrain binding due to dry pavement. However, if I'm in a parking lot, or making a sharp turn, I always put it into 2wd.

I was wondering if any of you can give me some advice on how to drive in this type of weather with a part-time 4wd system and how most people with part-time 4wd systems drive on the highway not knowing how much ice is on the road.

Thanks!

 

Ice I don't think 4wd helps much. In snow where there is slippage I just leave in 4wd. If spotty snow I go to 2wd if turning only using 4wd straight lines

 

4WD will not keep you on the road if you’re driving too fast in sharp turns. 4WD helps propel you forward in slippery conditions. Good snow tires and slower speed driving and turning are needed for winter driving.

 

Tires are a good call-out. Can you use studded or a dedicated set of winter tires in Canada?

 

Really?

 

Going slow and expecting to slide is my plan with ice.

 

Pretty sure you can shift on the fly at somewhere under 100k/hr. That being said, and if true, just use common sense. If you need it, use it. If the roads are dry or even just wet, take it out of 4wd.

 

I turn on 4hi when it's slippery, i.e. wet road with snow patches here and there or road covered with slush or snow. Also I drive in 4 hi on gravel or dirt roads. Basically from my experience it's ok to have 4hi turned on when road is wet or on dry road when there's no very sharp turns. But I turn it off when parking if road becomes dry or just wet a little bit. I got binding once when I was in 4hi going to work in the morning, but snow melted and parking lot was dried out when I was going back home. When I drove forward with sharp turn out of parking spot I had that binding. So I pulled back a little, turn off 4 hi and drove normally. I think transfer case in 4runners is quite strong, at least I didn't have any issues for 11 years driving like this in my old 2010 SR5.

 

But 4wd absolutely helps with traction on ice.

 

For starters, driving in conditions where there is ice, cruise control should not be used. If the roads are the icy, 4 wheel drive will absolutely be a great help as long as you're not trying to drive too fast for conditions. If you need to have 4 wheel drive engaged you should also be driving much slower than posted.

Coming from pick ups, I find the 4runner does better in these conditions being better balanced front to rear.

"High speeds" and rear wheel drive in slippery conditions should always be avoided.

 

Welcome. Make sure to have a good set of winter tires on your rig. Most winter tires lose their capability after 50%+ of the tread has worn down. Also, if you're fish tailing and feel unsafe, then you may be driving too fast for the conditions.

 

Honestly if the traction is really bad I'll leave it in 4High until I get into town and slow down/ need to turn sharper.

I don't worry about the system much. It's pretty robust. Just plan ahead a bit and shift out of 4Hi when you feel like you need to.

You'll get a feel for how much bind is happening when you turn. I turn 90 degrees through intersections without a worry. But I'll shift back to 2WD when entering a parking lot where sharp turns may be needed. Play with 4WD a bit and you'll get a feel for how much bind the system is in. It can take some abuse when needed.

 

Winter driving tips from @Agent_Outside :

“Now let’s look at all of the advantages that come with 4WD and AWD:

1. It will help you accelerate
2. There is no 2, that’s the end of the list

4WD and AWD will not help you stop, they will not help you turn, they will not help you hold the road around a bend or switch lanes over the snow and slush channels. They will not help with anything except applying power to the ground in order to gain speed. You are effectively doubling the surface area of the contact patch that power is being applied to, but there is no change to the contact patch in any other situation. Everything else is left to the one part of the vehicle that actually contacts the ground, the tires. 4WD and AWD will help improve acceleration, but proper tires are going to help improve acceleration, safety, braking, handling, and traction in every scenario you can think up. Getting up to speed is irrelevant if you can’t control the speed once it’s there. The most advanced drive systems with all the electronics and driver aids in the world are rendered useless if the tires can’t hold the road.”

See:
https://aguyagirlandatrail.com/2022/12/07/winter-driving-with-4wd/

 

Great information! I learned all of this from the performance world also. You can have a nice 1400HP street car, but you will never see its true potential because traction will always be the equalizer. Now at a track with the proper tires, inflation, and track conditions, you can unleash that power. This also applies to braking. Having the proper brakes, optimal surface conditions, and proper tires will help you stop faster.

When I run dedicated winter tires on my 4Runners, I could go just about anywhere in 2WD.

In summary, tires and street conditions will always be the equalizer for your traction issues. Use the right tool for the job at hand.

 

AWD can help in the corners too... If OP already turned TCS/SCS off beforehand and drifts through the corners like he's driving a fat ass rally car...
Oh wait, is that just me?

 

Random 4Runner owner writing an article on a website doesn't make it correct.

4WD with no center diff (or locked center diff) absolutely helps you stop. 14% better stopping in 4WD vs 2WD in the Tacoma:



In AWD crossovers (Jeep Compass, Hyundai Santa Fe) I also notice a marked improvement in stability in turns on snow and ice with the center diff locked.

 

Team O’Neil rally school just ran a hot lap in a 4R that shit was fun to watch. It’s on their YouTube channel if y’all want to check it out

 

Not necessarily. I watched a great video on Youtube, had a guy in a Limited (full-time 4wd) driving around in a parking lot that was covered in ice. He pulls up to the edge, with the rear wheels still on the ice, and the front wheels on the uniced asphalt. He turns the front wheels slightly to the left, applies power, and the rear wheels just spin, he's not moving. Moves them to the right, repeat, same result. Then he locks the center differential, and easily moves out. So having 4wd didn't help him get out of the iced parking lot at all, but locking the center differential did. I'm not an offroader, and luckily live in a place that's mainly three seasons, so I don't have to deal with snow or ice or any kind of regular basis. Having full-time 4wd is comforting, and watching that locked center diff pull out of the ice like that was pretty cool.

 

Guys, I'm not driving this car like a rally car or going crazy around corners lol...

I've just noticed that from my own experience, when in 2wd, if I'm pressing the gas slightly to accelerate (say it's a hill but also a slight turn) then I'll lose some traction but in 4wd this doesn't happen so I think it definitely has an effect on handling when turning on slippery conditions. That's why I like to leave it in 4H when I have doubt of the road conditions. I do have winter rated tires so that's not necessarily the issue. It's just that I have found 4wd to be much more stable on questionable road conditions than 2wd, not always but most of the time. I was just worried about long term issues when driving on a mix of dry and slippery conditions on the highway in 4H.

 

^This
Keep it in 4H in those conditions mate. Its fine. When you need to make a really sharp turn in the dry, shift back into 2WD.

People baby these trucks but they are capable of a lot of abuse. You will do no harm by driving in 4Hi

 

Just drive. We didn't buy Toyota's because they're weak.

 

4R is new for us this year. The factory tires are near the end of life, and the thing still gets amazing traction in 2WD -- feels much better than our previous front-wheel-drive Caravan. Even with a fair amount of snow on our 1/2 mi drive with some hills, we've still not "had" to use 4WD, only been doing so for fun. The throttle control seems really good -- it never spins in gravel in places where our van would regularly spin taking off. I rarely even see the traction control light come on. The 4R just goes ... very smooth machine.

 

Sliding on the highway on ice can only be solved with proper winter tires. Get proper tires before you end up in a wreck. No, all-terrain tires won't do.

 

Awd, and Full time 4wd(like the Limited trim) are often described as “more stable” in turns. That’s because when traction is very poor in a turn, even a slow one, any amount of throttle can break a tire loose and cause a slide. By sharing power with all 4 wheels, you don’t end up overwhelming one or more of the tires.

Part time 4wd is similar, except the lack of center differential means you need to avoid turning on dry areas, so it requires more driver management. Also, I woukd think that not having a center diff means binding forces might break traction on some icy turning situations (not sure how likely this would be a problem).

The real problem for me with part-time 4wd on varied traction situations on the road, is that I’ll forget to switch to two wheel drive until I notice the binding. I’ve always tried to avoid shifting when it’s bound up, but if you just turned into a tight parking lot without enough of a straight to unbind and shift, then you’re in pickle.

I think that trying to shift,while the driveline is binding, is worse for the transfer case then just simply dragging a binding driveline through a turn… I say this having had my manual transfer case fail while shifting. I thought the driveline was unbound when I shifted, but it felt like crap when I did, and it did not initially want to release into 2wd. In my case, I was on fairly flat gravel trail, but maybe the little bit of uneveness slightly bound things up? In any case, I didn’t break the transfer case chain drive itself, I broke something in the synchromesh that made shifting while moving impossible (I had to stop to shift in/out of 4wd). The 4wd aspect still worked like normal, I just could no longer shift on the fly.


So now I have some reason to worry about using 4wd in situations with mixed traction. But I’m not worried about binding, I worry about me making a ham-fisted attempt to shift out of 4wd when I end up in some tight parking lot and because I forgot to shift back into 2wd.

 

^You know what's the first thing to break in a tight turn in 4WD? Tire traction with the pavement. If you forget and notice drivetrain binding, give it some gas and get the tire to slip.

 

In most cases that’s true. But I’ve seen vids of cv axles breaking while in 4wd in somebody’s driveway lol.

Granted, in that case it was a very inclined driveway with a very tight turn, with a camber change that pushed some tires hard into what looked to be a grippy concrete surface.

But your point still stands, a flat parking lot and a 90 degree turn is unlikely to break things. Although, I’m not sure goosing the throttle will always guarantee the same outcome. Personally, I’d rather be gentle about it.

 

^All I can say is I've done it a few times with my Tacoma on 35s and nothing broke, and that was before the upgrade to RCV axles. Makes sense as in 4hi, the drivetrain sees less than half the torque it was designed for in 4lo.