On extremely single digit arctic air I'm hearing extra tapping noise over the normal valve chatter

This morning when warming up my 2018 4 runner I heard a different tapping coming from the engine compartment.
Valve Chatter was always noticeable after a few thousand miles which the dealer says it’s nothing to worry about.
Mileage now it’s 128k .
Oil changed every 3k - 5k
Dropped off the 4 runner at Toyota so they can duplicate the first cold start chatter noise coming from the engine compartment.
I’ve brought up the issue with the service advisor before now with temperatures in the teens it’s crazy loud.
Temperature was below average all week.

Any idea what might be causing this noise from these videos below?
(Brake lamp on since im using the emergency brake)

 

Welcome. What type of oil and weight are you using?

 

Thank You! Royal Purple 0W-20 weight
Toyota dealer oil filter.

 

https://youtu.be/fSBHjTJ6Yd0?si=SLsNQIWHrRLClxx7

( These are the Links to the videos of the cold start clatter noises .
The engine was running for about a minute before I gave a little acceleration to be able to show what I’m talking about. The video I had was 2 minutes long and had two split it in two.
Sorry, for the faint of heart members here it breaks my heart this clattering)


https://youtube.com/shorts/Ch7udfzy0Bo?si=dsfXeVhk5QiY1S7y

 

It's really hard to tell, but it does sound like some valve chatter. Maybe someone can chime in, it sounds like it may need a valve lash adjustment.

 

Keep on truckin*

 

Keep us posted on what the dealer says. It could be anything, like valves, or motor mounts, or bearings, or timing chain guides, etc.

 

I will let you know! As soon as the temps hit the teens this week, it got way worse.

 

Do you mean the extra tapping noise starting at ~00:18 superimposed over the normal valve chatter?

As a rule of thumb, you don't need to be concerned with any noises that disappear after the engine had reached normal operating temps.

 

Yes, the extra tapping is super loud now
It’s driving me crazy the noise. As we speak it’s getting looked by Toyota technicians. If this happens to all 4.0 Toyota engines at 128k and have to listen to that every day that really sucks.

 

I have/had that too on cold days- -12F to 30F, for short periods. It goes away. The VVTi makes different noises depending outside temps, oil temp, etc.

 

Does the tapping go away when it’s at operating temp? It sounds like your engine was still stone cold. It might be normal. Especially if your 4runner sleeps outside. Even an unheated garage can keep the engine bay temps from dropping as much, compare to being outside.

Although I didn’t like the extra taps on the second video. Again, what it sounds like when the engine has warmed up is what’s important. Are there any hints of that extra inconsistent tapping when it’s warm?

Not going to lie, I cried on the inside when you revved a cold engine like that. The Car Care Nut has some vids on VVTI. He mentioned that the VVTI is hydraulically operated using engine oil. So I can imagine on a cold morning, it will take some time for it to make its way into the whole vvti system. Until it’s fully pressurized, there will probably be extra valve lash. That’s just one of the reasons I take it real easy on cold days, until everything is properly at operating temp.

It might not be a bad idea to try the Toyota oil in this case. It has extra goodness that might help in cold startup situations.

 

Thanks for the replies guys . It’s not that i noticed the extra tapping noise over the normal valve chatter on a warm engine yet..It’s at the dealer as we speak..
It’s a wonderful truck it’s always been my dream to own one. I’m just kind of disappointed….
The engine was running for about a minute before I gave a little acceleration to be able to show what I’m talking about. The video I had was 2 minutes long and had two split it in two.
sorry for the faint of heart members here it breaks my heart this noise…

 

I must be deaf. Sounds ok to me.

 

Don’t worry I’ll be fine,. I feel a little better it was running at least for a minute.

It could be lot of things, maybe even the pulley bearings or other maintainance items. Basically that noise could be anything that spins, not necessarily something expensive. Hoping for the best!

 

Hi guys!
Update from the Toyota dealer. They called me today and the service advisor said that the technician heard an unusual sound for 5 seconds and it was too short to pinpoint the problem. They wanted to keep it overnight and hear the noise again in the morning. I will keep you posted.

 

Was it same sound when you pick up new 4Runner from dealership and it was filled with original Toyota oil from the factory? I bet - it wasn't.

 

This reminds me of my old V6 accord but it happened on cooler spring Michigan mornings in March/April. The car was outside overnight. I would get this odd noise at start up for about 5-10 min and then it went away.

It turned out to be piston slap in the 5th cylinder and the car only had 37k miled and six yo just outside of extended warranty I bought. Luckily Honda worked with me and ended up getting a new crate engine. The dealer and Honda worked together and I was grateful. In my case the noise got worse over periods of two months into summer.

I hope this is not your case sir because it is still a big undertaking.

I was happy with Hondas response though. My previous Ford experience no way would Ford stand behind me.

 

The normal valve clatter noise started with the oil changes from Toyota Dealer and their oil changes. After powertrain warranty 60k came up I’ve started to service it somewhere where I can be there and make sure everything gets done. I’m very picky when it comes to my cars I only used oem parts bought from Toyota.

 

Yes, I check the dipstick all the time.
It’s always good. The car doesn’t consume any oil between 3k - 5k
Oil changes…

 

It’s been a reliable 128k 4 runner overall things I changed with OEM Toyota parts -
One new Car Battery
Remote batteries
Toyota oil filters
Transmission fluid
Differential fluid front and back
Transfer case fluid (4x4)
Rotors and Pads all around ( three times)
One Serpentine Belt
Coolant flushed
Brake fluid
Power steering fluid
Air filters
Cabin filters
Front sway bar Links
Rear sway bar Links
Ceramic Paint Protection
3 sets of tires Geolanders (Japan Mfg)
Hands free phone 1 speaker driver side (900 dollars)
@116k Front struts and rear shocks hydraulically connected all lines and 2 pumps ( $3,159 )
treated with fluid film to prevent frame corrosion.

 

Update From Toyota: Brought home the car…

(Technician Notes)

Heard a ticking noise from engine briefly (about 5 seconds) after initial cold start outside of shop. Brought vehicle into shop and ran engine to listen for noise but heard nothing abnormal. Customer may need to leave vehicle overnight to check for any abnormal noise in the morning. Unable to diagnose at the moment.

They had it for total of two day’s Monday morning was 19F And Tuesday morning was 33F …

Option 1
They want me to drive car to them immediately if I hear the clatter noise again.

Option 2
Take apart the engine and look for damage. (Very pricey they said)

I basically got a big unresolved problem now.

 

Option 3 try another dealer who hopefully has more competent staff. Ask to speak with a master technician who take some ownership for identifying the issue. I would not rely on a write up tech ask to speak to the dude who will be starting it up and show them the video

Who rips apart an engine to maybe identify an issue. Are these guys nuts?

 

After they had the car Monday in 19F arctic cold air for a few hours, they called me and explained how they only heard it for a few seconds. I sent them the Links of videos I posted on YouTube so the service advisor can show it to the technician.
The service technician has already seen the videos and heard the noises, yet I still got an illogical recommendation.
( Drive it immediately to Toyota if I hear the noise in the video again )
They wanted to know if I can leave the car overnight, and I said sure.Yet I guess the next day it was “33F too warm” cold /start to hear any noises so they told me that they’d have to take apart the entire engine to find out and that could be very costly. I’m not sure of any other competent shops except the dealer that would look at it and give a different answer. I have invested so much in this Toyota dealership, very shocked and disappointed in how they responded to this situation.They’ve taken good care of my Toyota vehicles but it was bought out by new ownership recently and by the looks of things everything has gone South….My 2011 Sienna Limited it’s perfect all original mechanically strong!

 

Certainly far cheaper than an exploratory engine tear down, you may want to treat your crankcase with some Seafoam. Although many things can make that sound it could be your lifter getting a little too gummed up. That sound is not a bottom end engine noise and sounds more like a valvetrain noise i.e. lifter/lifters.

 

If you were near Utah, I’d be happy to take a quick look.

 

I would change back to Toyota OEM oil. It is a simple experiment.

 

I had a Tacoma with the 2.7L that started to knock only in the winter at initial start-up. I guessed it was piston slap from discussion with mechanics. As I remember it had over 100,000 miles on it and I continued to drive it until I traded it in at 200,000 miles. Never had any issues with it other than the annoying winter knock at start up.

 

Thanks, sounds like a good option!
Do you add the seafoam before the oil change or after?

 

I appreciate your offering. Thank you!