Lopsided Pre Load.....?

Brief synopsis. 2014 T4R Trail.
I recently installed some Fox 2.5's, and JBA UCA's. The pre-load collar was set the same on both sides when I got them at 2" of pre-load.

After install the front end of the 4 runner was severely raked and leaning very far left (driver).
I adjusted the pre-load so the runner has 0.5" of rake front to back and is dang close to level side to side.

To achieve this, I had to adjust the pre-load collar on the passenger side to 2.5" and the drivers side to 3.25". So a 0.75" difference side to side, which seems excessive.

I wanted your take on why this is, or if you have had similar experiences?

Before you ask, the measurements were taken on level ground in my garage, Tire PSI is is identical side to side, and measurements were taken after driving and getting the suspension to settle.

Please let me know what you think.
Thanks

))--SLIVER-->

PS I'll add some pics.

 

Passenger side.

 

Drivers side

 

Measurements from top hat to lower
eye center.

Driver- 21 3/16”
Passenger- 21” even.

I was replacing a 3” spacer lift and stock coils with these Fox ones hoping for around 3” overall.

The code in the spring is 039-26 as best as I can read it as the code is around the back of the spring.

This matches on each side.

I should also mention I haven’t gotten an alignment yet. That will happen next week.

 

The pre-load kinda looks excessive, but I couldn’t tell you for sure. But you really need to find out if it is.

If the preload is too much you could end up bottoming the coils on themselves before the lower control arms hit the bump stops. Avoid that at all costs! Make sure they won’t bind!!! Otherwise, the first time you bottom out, it will be the coils themselves causing it, which will absolutely immediately wreck things!!!! Bottoming hard on the coils will bend or crack the new shocks, the LCA, and/or the shock-tower welded to the frame.

The easiest thing you can to find out if the coils will bind is asking the seller for specs on a 4runner application.

Hopefully they would be able to tell you the required coil free-length and spring rate to result in the lift height you want with the weight you have. It’s possible your springs are too short for the lift you want, or the spring rate is too weak for the weight you’re running.

For the separate issue of down travel, it’s true that three inches of lift will decrease it a lot.. But that’s true for any suspension lift with stock control arms and shocks with stock travel range. You want the new shocks to have stock travel range because the shocks themselves limit droop so you don’t break your CV joints or tear the UCA ball joint out of it’s socket. This is why you shouldn’t use long travel shocks unless you also change thousands of dollars of parts to accommodate the extra travel.

If your rear axle is lifted that much, same thing. Your ride height is very near maximum extension. Too high in general also not good for the cv axles (especially boots) in front, and not good for the pinion on the rear diff or longevity of the u-joints on the driveshaft. It’s a fine balancing act. Most people seem to say 2in of lift is fairly harmless, but more than three is asking for trouble.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. I’ve been thinking about this all night……
You guys bring up some very good Info…..
RunnerJimmy, I read your second reply and then it disappeared…..not sure why.

To answer a few questions.

Up front I have a C4 bumper, no winch yet.
The springs in the rear came with a toytec kit, they are 2.5” lift coils (I believe they are Eibach) with no spacers.
The runner is really not that big, it’s crazy I’m having such issues getting 3” in the front while maintaining enough up and down travel.
I really appreciate you guys bringing these things up, and am considering throwing the stock coils back in until I can find a better solution.
I’m going to call Fox tomorrow and get their take and their ideal preload settings, but I don’t see a way to get 3” out of these and stay in the sweet spot with up and down travel.

What would you guys do?

 

Fox should be able to point you in the right direction. Personally, I'd keep the lift to about 2".

 

The sweet spot with up and down travel is at stock height. When you lift with shocks/coils, it’s not changing the range, you just move your ride height to a different spot within the same physical range that is dictated by other front end components (unless you go long travel). So when you lift, you’ll necessarily reduce your down travel.

Just to reiterate, I don’t know if your pre load is excessive. But since you’ve changed it, it’s important to make absolutely sure it’s not excessive so you don’t break stuff. Hopefully whoever sold you the kit can help you out.

But if you’re left on your own to figure it out, start watching Tinkerer vids on youtube so that you can understand all the variables, the start taking your own measurements, and researching exactly what results you want, and what exactly what springs and dampers are needed.

 

I've seen a full 1.0" difference left and right with the sway bar removed. It's a flaw in the Toyota Prado platform putting all the heavy items on the left side of the vehicle (battery, driver, fuel tank). In Tacoma circles it's called "taco lean". Toyota compensates for this by using stiffer front springs on the left side in the stock suspension.

Since the 4Runner is already pretty heavy, and you have a steel bumper with potentially more weight coming in, change to 700 lb springs to reduce the amount of preload you have to apply.

 

Thanks again for the help guys! This morning I was up at 0400 and in the garage putting the stock coilovers back in until I can get this figured out. I plan on contacting ShockSurplus and getting their take on it. Also figured I could call FOX and see what they have to say. I'm not stuck on the FOX's for sure if ShockSurplus will allow me to return or exchange these.
It seems crazy that a shock that is marketed as providing 3" of lift would have no more travel left in it once that amount of lift is reached.

Thanks again! I'll report back.

))--SLIVER-->

 

I agree that your front end weight is probably too much for 13" 600lb springs.

I would talk to Accutune to see what they recommend for your weight.......especially since you plan to add a winch.

I suspect they will advise you to go up to a 700lb spring and maybe even go up to a 14" spring.

 

Here is a thought I had...... Do you think the new fox's are side specific? I know the stock ones are......
That led me to check the part numbers on each spring.... They have this tiny micro code which is different for each spring..... I am wondering if the springs were on the wrong side of the runner. I am going to call Fox today if I can get a break from work during business hrs and see if that is the case.
Hoping so.......that would be an easy fix!

 

here is the code.

 

My first guess is that the stamped number is a date code.

 

Thanks for the info guys! I'll report back on what FOX says.

 

Mine were both >21" when I measured them with the vehicle weight.

 

That was to the bottom of the top hat. The shocks are now on the bench out of the vehicle, so I'd assume you could tack on 0.5" to the measurement.

 

Just got off the phone with FOX and they confirmed that the shocks are not side specific, that they are the same spring size and rate from side to side. 13" with 600lb springs. They advise that instead of jacking the preload on the drivers side to account for the lean, that I crank the pre-load down on the passenger side to match.......?
I'm kind of at a loss of what route to go from here. Do I try to use these shocks, or see if I can return them....?

I have read that some of the Toyota kits come with spacers to use on the drivers side to account for the "Toyota lean" thereby allowing the shock stroke to remain in the "sweet spot".

What do you guys think about doing that?

 

I’m not sure the shocks are the problem here. The question is if the spring is suited for the ride height you want with the weight you carry. This is something that’s true for any coil over spring setup.

When I bought my dobinsons IMS coils and shocks at Exit Off Road, they give you an estimate (it’s always an estimate) of a particular spring’s resulting lift for a given weight range. If you pay for crickey mike to assemble it, he will set the pre-load within Dobinsons recommended preload range so you dont end up with the worst case scenario of coil binding. Mine came out pretty close to the estimate when all said and done. However, I have done some preload adjustment since that time. (It was just a small amount of adjustment, but now this thread and all my advice is making me feel dumb for not verifying the numbers myself )

I would find out the details of how exactly you need to measure for the acceptable preload distance. I got a sheet from Dobinsons with all those specs and instructions, I’m sure Fox has similar.

You are almost there! If you are going to return them, you might have to figure out the same thing on the next set.

 

The biggest reason people recommend 2 to 2.5 inches of maximum lift is precisely because you’ll use up too much of the available down travel. You might be able to find some aftermarket shocks with slightly longer extended length than stock, but not by much. The reason is that in the end, downtravel dictated by every other interacting part of the independent front suspension system. The shock is there to limit max extension so that CVs dont bind, or swaybars don’t hit something, or ball joints dont come apart when over extended. How much “extra” shock length your 4runner can tolerate before breaking expensive parts depends on other variables, but it’s safer to stay with an aftermarket shock that is keeps the whole system to the same factory travel limits.

That’s why you should really think about how much lift you really want/need. On Toyota IFS, more lift gives you better terrain clearance, and better approach, breakover, and departure angles….but it’s at the expense of down travel (and maybe potentially early failures of cv boots). It’s always a trade and a compromise

The only way to get around the stock limitations to down travel is to start spending the big bucks on long travel suspension. This essentially changes all of the expensive parts like UCAS, LCAS, extended/high angle CV axles, brake lines etc.

Watch this guy’s videos. Bring a pen and notepad and big cup of black coffee when you watch lol. He’ll show you all about Toyota IFS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_68Hc8GtLko

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UyexuN9xw

 

Thanks guys! I have def. watched a bunch of Tinkerer's videos already..... I don't want to get into the long travel stuff for sure and would really like to get these Fox's to work as I already have them and they should be light years better than my stock ones.
I'll keep researching this week and get something figured out by next week when I'm off work to get this project wrapped!

 

You need to replace the coils (not the shocks). The shocks themselves will work fine.

Instead of 600lb coils, you need a minimum of 650lb......maybe even 700lb. Talk to Accutune and get their advice as to which coil will work best for your weight.

 

I looked at the spring rate chart on Accutune and it indicates that as long as you aren't >100lbs over stock weight with bumpers winch etc.... they recommend a 13" 600lb spring.
I'll screen shot it and add it below.

 

This was an article on accutune specifically for 4Runners and Tacomas.
I'm not opposed to calling them and getting more specifics though....

 

Is that for Tacoma or 4runner?

 

The article is for both, 4R and Taco. I think what it is saying is that on most 2.5" fox coilovers, the 13" 600lb spring is standard.

https://accutuneoffroad.com/articles/coilover-spring-rates-for-toyota-tacoma-4runner/

 

14” spring is what’s standard for 4Runners on Fox and King shocks. 13” is standard for Tacomas on Fox shocks

 

Agree, I’m seeing the same thing.

 

Well now you guys have me thinking I have the wrong shocks for the 4Runner……

I better confirm this with Fox before I proceed. I’ll report what I find out!