People are not buying EVs

The Bolt actually sells well. They’re hard to find because they are incredibly cheap and amazingly well designed from a packaging standpoint.

I have better headroom in it than I do in my 4Runner.

It’s only problem is that it ain’t expensive enough to generate large margins.

 

"driving" an EV might be "cheaper"; the price of the EV is prohibitive.
When I owned by Volt, I was lucky to have cheap electricity here in SE MI. I could charge it from dead to full for like $1.50. That would yield ~60 miles of range. The great thing about the Volt was you could never ever charge it - just run it on gas. You'd get 35-40mpg all day long. The total range was something like 60 miles electric + 300 miles on gas. It was a great car.

I just sold my 17 Volt Premier in September.... Im not fat or particularly tall (5' 11/6') but had a helluva time getting and out without banging my head. I miss the car; I do not miss that aspect of it!

Funny because I was just looking at used Bolts last night on Marketplace. They're peppy. And with the mass battery recall/replacement, you can get a '17 Bolt LT/Premier with like 30k miles, and a new HV battery with the 8yr/100k warranty for like $17k. THATS a deal.

 

They are installing chargers under the asphalt of the highway and it charges them while you drive.

 

That’s a pretty neat experiment but I can’t see it being very feasible.

Wireless charging for phones is already relatively inefficient across such a smaller distance, couple that with road maintenance already being a massive and looming municipality expense (although I’m thinking of suburbs) and apparently it’s best when the car is stopped, such as a drive-thru or traffic light.

I’d sooner expect overhead lines a la trolley buses. I think that would be a pretty neat inter-city mass transit and long-distance trucking option when coupled with a hybrid bus or semi with a small battery or an all-electric one with a larger battery.

But no idea if it would be feasible/reliable/physically possible over hundreds of miles and the trucks and buses on that route.

 

News today:

Ford plans to cut F-150 Lightning production as consumer demand slows

HERE

Ford executives have said they're currently identifying ways to cut production costs of the Lightning and Mustang Mach-E to be more competitive. Doug Field, formerly of Apple and Tesla, is now at Ford, he noted.

Automakers are asking the Biden Administration to ease up on new regulatory changes that could cost Detroit automakers billions as they work to transition to electric vehicles.

"EVs are not catching on — not as hot as they thought they would be just a year ago," McElroy said.

Feds are using CAFE standards as a cudgel and levying large fines against automakers for non-compliance with their diktats. That's not laissez-faire.

 

This whole article or whatever Ford is saying is so misleading.

The Lightning sales have risen 54% this year... but seems like Ford put too many eggs in one basket and are producing too many for the actual demand. So they're cutting the future production to match the demand more which makes sense. Seems like the data they had didn't really match the reality of how many EVs people will actually buy.

But I agree, CAFE standards need to change and also states that have banned ICE sales after 2035 need to rethink this. For now, PHEVs are the future. EVs are still in a very early stage, I highly doubt they'll be able to satisfy everything and ICE or PHEV can do by 2035.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/11/23997632/ford-f150-lightning-production-reduce-ev-demand

 

Volt was a great idea in horrible packaging.

Our Bolt was top of the line that we bought for MSRP which was $33k or so. With tax credit, that comes down to around $26k for a brand new car with heated leather seats, 360 camera, and enough get up and go to make pickup owners feel like they need to try to race (and fail) in an effort to prove that they are men.

Seriously, it's so sad when pickups try to prove something by trying to race a compact car.

 

The F-150 Lightning was moronic.

Being an EV isn't the issue. It's being overpriced and ill thought out.

 

I think we need PHEV trucks. The PowerBoost and the Tundra hybrid are a good start, but need more electric range. Statistically, average work commute distance is 41 miles... I think a 50-60 mile EV range in PHEVs would be an excellent target instead of trying to make everything EV.

https://www.zippia.com/advice/average-commute-time-statistics/#:~:text=The average American commutes 41,workers drive alone to work.

 

to say they overestimated demand will be like saying I'm a bit under-qualified to play in the NBA.

https://insideevs.com/news/694422/ford-f150-lightning-us-sales-october2023/

They've sold less than 16k Lightnings by the end of October.

Then in Novermber sold 4,394 units.

https://electrek.co/2023/12/04/ford-sets-ev-sales-record-nov-lightning-becomes-best-seller/

So unless they have a year end miracle they will be under 25k for the whole year, with months of inventory on lots. by comparison up until last week their planned capacity was 150k a year.

 

A simple, small pickup about the same form factor as an early 2000s Taco with about 300 mile range would fly off the shelf if the maker priced it under 40k.

But that's not going to be feasible without massive tax rebates and the maker willing to take 5 digit loss on each unit unless they commit to a low cost platform.

 

Very interesting video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk

 

GM to lay off 1,300 workers across two Michigan plants as vehicle production ends

“GM had planned to start production on the Chevrolet Silverado EV and GMC Sierra EV next year at Orion, but GM said that it will "retime the conversion" of Orion Assembly plant to EV truck production and restart the plant in late 2025 instead.”

HERE: https://eu.freep.com/story/money/car...s/71923694007/

 

So that's GM's version of 50% production cut for their EV truck, with just Hamtramck running the assembly line.

 

EVs are garbo

 

I only drive 13 miles each way to work, so an EV would be great for me as a commuter car, but at $28K for a Bolt, it makes no sense. A Mazda 3 is less expensive and gets 30+ MPG. Like everything else automotive, cars and trucks have become so upscale that the prices are out of control.

 

Thats why you get a used Bolt with less than 30k miles, with a new battery under the Bolt-wide recall, with the new 8year/100k Federal battery warranty for around $17k AND get the tax credit for buying a used EV, bringing your true purchase price about $13,500

 

True, but for a similar price I can get a used Mazda 3 hatchback, plus a 6 speed if you want. I have nothing against the Bolt, but I do think EV's are being forced on us too much. I would actually spring for the new Prius AWD if I wanted a fuel efficient car.

 

“CBC News has learned that Ottawa will release final regulations it says will ensure that all new passenger cars sold in Canada by 2035 are zero-emission vehicles, a senior government source said.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/electric-vehicle-ev-guilbeault-1.7061381

 

Canada is so smart. ;-(

 

Ford dealers saying “No thanks” apparently: https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...Next-Year.html

Buick dealers are simply walking away: https://eu.freep.com/story/money/car...s/71978066007/

 

Fueleconomy.gov lists Mazda3 as having a 30mpg combined rating, and the Bolt EV as 120mpge.

To drive 100 miles at 30mpg using 87 octane at $2.85/gallon would cost me $9.50 in fuel.

Based upon my wife’s observed rate of 3.8 miles/kWh, it would take 26.32kWh to propel the Bolt EV the same distance.

We pay $0.113 per kWh, which gives us a cost of $2.97 to travel the same distance.

To drive 12k miles in a year (which is less than what we drive), the Mazda3 would cost us $1,140 vs $356.40 in the Bolt EV.

In actuality, we put 20k a year on my wife’s car typically. That puts the comparison at $1900 vs $594 annually. Let’s round to $600.

$1300/year savings is pretty big. Battery warranty is 8yr/100,000 miles, so let’s just say we keep it for 5 years.

That’s $6,500 in fuel savings.

Maintenance is another difference. There’s a good chance you’ll need a brake service at some point on the Mazda3 during the first 100,000 miles, plus a few other services. Let’s just say $500 which is on the really low end, compared to basically no maintenance on the Bolt - heck, we have to remember to occasionally use the brakes because we just constantly re-gen.

Up to $7k difference.

Plus the $7,500 tax credit.

An extra $14,500 savings over five years, of which $7500 occurs within the first year of ownership is pretty big.

It’s why we went with the Bolt over the other gas cars. Plus, found it more fun to drive thanks to the torque.

If you do a lot of driving, but less than 200 miles per day, EVs can really hit the sweet spot easily.

For your commute, I’d say get a scooter for nice weather and take the long route.

 

Buick only exists because it sells well in China.

 

I drove my cousin's brand new Tesla Model Y during a family reunion a year and a half ago; I thought it was cool, but at the same time it was like driving a video game, because among other things it would automatically brake when I took my foot off the accelerator pedal (can't call it a "gas pedal" because it's an electric vehicle ). I also like not having $700 month payments and able to gas and go rather than wait for it to charge!

 

There is also the Corolla Hybrid, 50mpg combined at a little over 20k.

 

To be fair, compare the payments on it to what a 4Runner goes for.

Cars are too expensive.

We’ve almost never had to wait to charge our Bolt. We charge at home.

I have yet to refine my own gasoline at home.

 

You mean the rental car spec - and that’s if you can find a dealer that will carry it with no options.

Hell, the closest 4WD plain SR5 trim 4Runner to me is 126 miles away. You can find 2WD trims closer, but who buys a RWD 4Runner in the snow and rust belt.

Dealers suck. We should be able to buy cars from the manufacturers.

 

Buick, Hollywood, some politicians…

 

Nice breakdown. Thanks for that.