This is why you leave space in front of you when off-roading

That whole “no brakes” thing is pretty bad.

 

Nothing 4Runner owners need to worry about, because MT hasn't been offered for two decades...

 

Yikes!

I tend to leave a little extra room between myself and anyone I'm following just in case things go sideways. But, a total loss of power and brakes would certainly be hard to plan for. That seems like a big problem!

It's funny that he mentioned how some obstacles are easier for longer vehicles. I see this regularly, when longbed Tacos actually have an advantage in some spots.

 

The Bronco certainly looks much better on paper. It's definitely been a good example of why you don't buy the first model year of anything. Although, I'm not even sure if they're working the bugs out.

 

I never understood why people bunch up. Regardless of the activity (wheeling, skiing, backpacking, climbing, even commuting), I operate under the assumption that whoever is uphill from me could succumb to gravity when I'm most vulnerable. I prefer to give them space.

 

Holy fuck just saw the video

So his engine died and looks like his brakes might have lost pressure? Since his is manual, means that the 2.3 ecoboost ain't cut out for off-roading.

This type of shit just reinforces that our 4Runners are truly amazing reliable machines. Others try, but ultimately fail.

 

It's been said in other threads previously, but reliability is part of off-road capability. This is one category where Toyota excels. A lot of folks are concerned about the 6th gen's drivetrain, and I can't blame them. I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as bad as some seem to think. But, it's going to be awhile before we'll know for sure.

 

His brakes failed too.

 

Surely dealer markup is supposed to prevent this sort of thing.

 

I went out in a big group on Saturday, and they were a few new drivers there. Me and another driver gently told one of the newbies about this. He was following another 4Runner owner too close going up and down hills. He was cool about it, he took the advice very graciously, and even had a few other questions.

I also get really annoyed by this in mountain bike group rides, I absolutely hate it when somebody is right on my back wheel. If you want to pass me, just call it out, otherwise fall back. If I fall I don't need to get ran over by you.

 

Not likely. Either he wasn't used to the lack of power assist when the engine stalled or he stepped on the wrong pedal (as suggested in the YouTube comments). There isn't an electronic malfunction that can cause the brakes to fail. Even if you shut off the engine and pull the keys out, shutting off the electrical system, the brakes still work.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the brake booster can get depleted after 2-3 heavy stabs if the engine isn't running, making the brakes hard to depress.

 

Exactly what I'm thinking happened.

 

That’s of course how it’s supposed to work, but… I had a 2020 Explorer for a company vehicle until July and it did some unexpected “high pucker factor” ECU nonsense more than once. First time was when the transmission cooler failed @ <5k mi & the ECU went bat shit crazy. That happened backing out of the driveway (thankfully). The electronic emergency brake instantly engaged - had that happened at +70 mph on the interstate I would have been in a bad spot…. A lot of other stuff that was either bad design or bad production (which was a known long-term issue with the Chicago area factory where the Explorers were built, before most had to go to Flint, MI for rework that is).

Point is I think a lot of fundamental design & production quality standards got thrown out the window at Ford years ago.

Interestingly, Ford paused production of the manual Bronco model earlier this year under the guise of retooling at the MI factory to add the 2024 Ranger lines. Seems legit.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a43386867/ford-pauses-manual-bronco-production/

 

I’m not a “brake by wire” electronic braking expert by any means, but here’s a basic overview of how they’re supposed to work:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a34224683/how-brake-by-wire-works-safety/

In the event of an electronic failure a valve is supposed to open allowing everything to work as a traditional hydraulic system. Wouldn’t shock me at all if the safety valve failed (or Ford screwed up how it was supposed to work if the power/ECU failed) and there wasn’t actually a connection to the hydraulic system from the brake pedal when power failed.

Just my $0.02 that’s not based on any real data

 

Wait the Bronco has brake-by-wire?

I know the C8 Corvette has it and idk what else.

 

One of my Dad's motorcycle buddies got paralyzed that way. He lived a long, full life after that, but it could have been a lot better.

 

I was actually just searching the interwebz to confirm this. It does have an electronic emergency brake for sure (no hand brake in the manual & location of the ebrake button is big complaint on the Bronco forums, haha). Still trying to confirm it has brake-by-wire. That’s the only explanation I can come up with for a complete loss of brakes resulting from a power loss (and something stupid Ford would think was a good idea in an off-road vehicle, manual or not).

Regardless, see the last sentence disclaimer in my previous post

 

Grab some popcorn if you want some entertaining reading about the electronic emergency brake design/location…

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...he-greatest-failure-of-the-ford-bronco.62640/

 

And ironically in road bike group rides, it’s all about riding off of each others rear wheels.

 

Makes sense tho. Roadies usually keep a steady pace, MTBers not so much since we slow down going uphill and tight turns.

 

The driver wrote he had the pedal to the floor You'd think with adrenaline he'd be able to apply the required pedal pressure. Even with no vacuum assist, it doesn't take much pedal effort to hold the vehicle on a steep grade. This isn't a panic stop from 60 mph.

It'll be interesting to see how the 4th gen Tacoma MT drivers deal with the electronic parking brake next month.

 

Haven’t been able to find any info to confirm or deny the Bronco has brake-by-wire so I’m probably completely off base bringing that into the conversation. Apologies.

But, there are numerous articles and lawsuits related to the Bronco Sport ABS Brake recall and other known brake issues. Most concerning was this post on the Bronco forum from a guy that lost his brakes on the highway at 70 mph that was apparently caused by a known issue with the brake vacuum booster line:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...ay-known-issue-according-to-dealership.30961/

Not exactly the same thing that happened to the guy in the video, but just more evidence that Ford Engineering & Production/QC are a complete shit show imo and their ECU design + component quality/reliability is extremely wonky at best.

PS - for the cyclists, SRAM taking 3 iterations of warranty/recall/redesign on the XX Brakes many years ago before they finally figured out that DOT brake fluid & their XX magnesium lever body/master cylinder don’t work together is one of the several reasons you will never see SRAM (or Avid) brakes on any of my bikes! Any chemist/chemical engineer that paid attention in class knows that DOT brake fluid + magnesium = chemical reaction and tiny bubbles in the brake line form immediately after bleeding the brakes.

OK, enough Ford ranting from me, back to more 4Runner talk!

 

And you also don't buy a Ford when offroading.

 

Reminds me of this gem:

 

I will take a Fiat Wrangler over Ford any day of the week. FCA gave us the JL which is damn good. Not Toyota good, but crap like this will never happen to a manual JL.

 

One guy commented he was lucky it didn't happen on Black Bear Pass These Ford dimwits!

 

Drive by wire is one thing. I don't think I like the idea of braking that way. Seems to me you're inserting more failure points.

 

Yup. As insane as the C8 is... why does it have brake-by-wire? I honestly don't understand what's the point of re-inveting the wheel with more complication and more failure point.

Same goes with the steer-by-wire that Infiniti does.

 

Better tell that to the designers at Toyota. See that switch below the climate control knob that looks like the 4Runner back window switch?