When is a vehicle too big for off-roading?

Since the aftermarket support for the Wrangler is insane, I'm sure there's something available to bring the noise to an acceptable level

 

I think the solution is to not exceed 45 MPH.

 

Ha

 

Ok that's it, I'm selling my ORP, I found the perfect off-roader. Light, small, agile, short wheelbase, manual.

 

Those funny lil things are 4X4. I have seen them in India hauling all kinds of crap.

 

You’re right.


Toyota dealers will take them on trade!

 

Not quite as cool, but my Mom's BF has a mini truck that he uses for chores sometimes. This is clearly an old picture of the 4Runner.

 

4Runner is the max I would personally want to go. My preference is the 2 door Wrangler that for me is the optimal size. But I'll take my 4Runner all day over a Jeep lol.

 

The disrespect from LC owners

 

Does it have low range?

 

4Runner is the best compromise between offroad worthiness and practicality.

 

Aussies complaining

 

That's what happens when you put on big tires and a roof rack and drive it 80 MPH.

 

Spot on I had a 1985 4wd Tercel wagon that I had the original BF Goodrich AT tires on all the way around and we took it every where it was great in snow, Off road.... Yeah we got it stuck more than a few times but it was light so easy to get unstuck, My "Winch" was a come along it look just like the picture below.

 

Yeah, that's weird that Toyota would want to make money, rather than building specialty vehicles for a handful of people.

Edit: did whoever wrote that ever look at the 100 series and 200 series Landcruisers?

And, the new GX looks more masculine than the previous GX/Prado, IMO.

 

As for "too big" I go off road all the time with my 4Runner and with my Tundra however I certainly would not take the Tundra on the same trails that the 4Runner gets to go on even thought I have a shorter Tundra than 99% of them out there.

 

All depends on the obstacle. Longbed pickups can walk up things that SWB Jeeps struggle on.

Wrangler has way better approach/departure angles than the 4R, and one can easily fix the break over angle since unlike the 4R, it's easy to fit big tires on a Wrangler.

 

I look at Wranglers as an off-road vehicle that can be used on the street, and the 4Runner (and pretty much any other 4x4 in production) as a street vehicle that can be used off-road.

Even Wrangler guys will say the 4R is a better DD.

 

You know what's funny, though? I still think about it sometimes. The thought of a manual transmission, a real crawl gear, removable top, and the ability to fit real tires without butchering it is still so tempting. If I were in a financial position to own multiple vehicles, I'd probably have both.

 

I was buying parts for my Grand Cherokee. Saw the King and parked next to it. I have bigger tires though But the lil thing has 4.10 and 4:1

 

Just so you, that lil thing also has 285 hp and torque around there

4.88 from factory for a lil 2 door. But $57,000. Get the f out of here Jeep. A $57,000 2 door Jeep. The world has gone nuts. If I had to spend that kind of money on a Jeep I would rebuild a TJ

 

Funny that it says "4.88 rear axle ratio." I certainly hope the front has 4.88's, also.

Yeah, $57K sounds like a lot. But, it's already regeared and sitting on 33's.

 

So a buddy with a 17 Rubicon (2 door) decided to upsize from the stock tire size to 285/70-17s. He’s got the mopar 2in lift kit. Imagine my surprise when he couldn’t clear them under articulation! I thought a little change like that would be a non-issue, but his tire contacted the shock towers in the front, and pressed into the body tub in the rear. We actually anticipated the shock tower contact, because he was initially ok with grinding the shock tower a smidge. But once we realized the rears would mash against the tub, he just figured getting spacers was the easiest way.

So ironically, 4runners are way easier to clear slightly bigger tires if you want to keep stock wheels.

But I’m not sure that big tires are any easier to deal with on jeeps. I’ve seen kits that will have you notch out a quarter of the box section frame and weld in a plate in front to allow for full steering angle! This was not a small notch, it went half way diagonally into the box section. How is cutting your main frame rails easy? Or how is that not destroying the jeep?

Is it that jeep owners with 35s etc limit suspension up-travel with bump stops, and steering angle travel? Because 4runners could do that too. I don’t understand where Jeeps get the reputation saying they’re easier to fit bigger tires. Suspension lifts are just as complicated as well with regard to alignment, driveshafts, and the arc travel of the axles.

I’m not saying they should be easier to modify correctly, but I dont get how they got that reputation.

 

I noticed that a lot of Wrangler lift kits come with new link arms, which might be a factor. Also, it seems like Jeep people are more concerned about backspace than offset, which leads me to believe that they don't have issues with rubbing the outside of the tires.

I can't say anything for sure, due to no personal experience. But, the guy at Performance off-road made it sound like a 2" lift and trimming the fender flares would clear 37's.

One thing is for sure: I definitely see a lot more Jeeps on 35's and 37's. And, you'll pretty much never see a 4Runner on 40's.

Edit: I just looked out of curiosity, and it seems like bump stops to limit up-travel is definitely a factor.

 

I’ll have to check out his fenders next time I see the jeep. One thing is for sure, going up one size on stock wheels wasn’t gonna happen on his jeep (if he wanted to retain use of his swaybar disconnect). So right there, that makes 4runners easier and cheaper to go up one size.

Spacers aren’t hard, but not cheap (for decent ones), or necessarily desirable. In his case, he was not opposed to the slightly more badass look with the spacers, once he saw it lol.

 

It's cool you're getting to see the difference first hand. I'll have a consultant for if I ever go off the deep end.

Has he been in touch with any shops? I know Performance is good with Jeeps, and there's another Jeep shop on HWY 18 near Delafield.

Also, is he on any forums?

 

When he decided to get bigger tires, it just turned into a good excuse to set up stumps in his backyard to flex out the suspension and actually check to see if they cleared. That’s when we realized the front spring towers wouldn’t clear.

After the new tires, it was another excuse to climb stumps again to verify they rubbed as we predicted. That’s when we were surprised to see the rubbing on the rear wheels on the tub.

Really, we often find any excuse, any at all, to set up the stumps haha. It doesn’t have to be because of new tires. We’re really just a couple of 12 year olds lol.




He’s not any of these new-fangled forums though. Also, he generally tries to avoid shop costs on the jeep and wants to keep it close to stock, since his real hobby car has a bit of a tendency to ask for money at inconvenient times lol.

I’ve actually been trying to research some tire/lift options for jeeps because my BIL is also thinking of upgrading a bit. That’s really when I first realized these are no less complicated to properly lift or to fit larger tires compared to 4runners. Jeeps have the advantage in that you can get cheaper parts (good and bad thing). I also think there are some variations between the different type of J’s over the years that makes it hard to generalize.

 

That's baby flex for a Jeep.